Steve Rogers Birthday Bash Weekend Thread | 5-Day #s: Indy 83.4, Elemental 18, Spidey 17.65, Sound of Freedom 14.2, No Hard Feelings 11.3

[Zakiyyah6]

Yes, white males are so oppressed and never star in movies anymore. You people keep believing your own lies. Indiana Jones is bombing because Harrison Ford is a 1000 years old and nobody fantasizes about going on an adventure at that age. Indy being young was a huge part of his appeal. You take away Harrison Ford at his peak and you have an unappealing project. Lucasfilm should have never made the film. You can't recast the role and Ford is too old. They should have let it die in 2008. 

[FunkMiller]

2 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Yes, white males are so oppressed and never star in movies anymore. You people keep believing your own lies. Indiana Jones is bombing because Harrison Ford is a 1000 years old and nobody fantasizes about going on an adventure at that age. Indy being young was a huge part of his appeal. You take away Harrison Ford at his peak and you have an unappealing project. Lucasfilm should have never made the film. You can't recast the role and Ford is too old. They should have let it die in 2008. 

 

Yep. The original trilogy was so bloody good because you could suspend disbelief, and believe that Harrison Ford was actually doing those stunts - especially when you were a kid. There was some real magic there.

 

Nobody believes Ford is doing anything in this movie. And it would never have been made in an age without CG. 
 

I’d go further. I don’t think this kind of adventure movie works with obvious CG at all. Ever. It needs to be as practical as possible, with stunts that obey the laws of physics, and are on a believable level.

 

In a year where the cost of living is biting, who wants to pay money to watch computer graphics jump around the screen, instead of Indiana Jones?

[Last Man Standing]

22 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Yes, white males are so oppressed and never star in movies anymore. You people keep believing your own lies. Indiana Jones is bombing because Harrison Ford is a 1000 years old and nobody fantasizes about going on an adventure at that age. Indy being young was a huge part of his appeal. You take away Harrison Ford at his peak and you have an unappealing project. Lucasfilm should have never made the film. You can't recast the role and Ford is too old. They should have let it die in 2008. 

But why.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Last Man Standing

[M37]

1 hour ago, Maggie said:

 

Fwiw, I’m not seeing $55-$65M OW off a $7M+ preview, more like $50-$55 (but haven’t seen weekend presale numbers in a while, maybe they’re decent, and older audience can IM well)

[Maggie]

Everyone can be replaced. It just needs to be perfect casting. There was a tv series with Seann Patrick Flanery. He was great casting. The movies need someone like that, not someone like Alden Ehrlich.

[Kon]

50 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Yes, white males are so oppressed and never star in movies anymore. You people keep believing your own lies. Indiana Jones is bombing because Harrison Ford is a 1000 years old and nobody fantasizes about going on an adventure at that age. Indy being young was a huge part of his appeal. You take away Harrison Ford at his peak and you have an unappealing project. Lucasfilm should have never made the film. You can't recast the role and Ford is too old. They should have let it die in 2008. 

I agree that Ford's age is the main issue. After all, there is a reason why action movies wouldn't hire 80 years old as protagonists.

[FunkMiller]

22 minutes ago, Maggie said:

Everyone can be replaced. It just needs to be perfect casting. There was a tv series with Seann Patrick Flanery. He was great casting. The movies need someone like that, not someone like Alden Ehrlich.

 

Indy is such an old school character that I'm not sure they'll ever find someone else to play him. Hollywood and society have moved on so much from that classic, heroic 'adventure man' archetype that existed in post war movies. And Ford was quite frankly untouchable in that role across the whole of the 80s. I think it's probably best to leave the character now. We had three absolutely remarkable movies, and that was maybe enough.

[Jonwo]

7 hours ago, BadOlCatSylvester said:

Damn, what an abysmal year for Disney. Quantumania opened well but dropped off a cliff, their Black Panther reprisal attempt didn't even come close to that, Elemental is going to get killed by its budget, they started removing content from Disney+ for some desperate cash, and now Indiana Jones is going to be another bloated flop. Guardians 3 was their only win for the year, and it'll certainly be their biggest for the year now. The layoffs later this year are going to be brutal. Shit, they might even have to sell off some assets to stabilize the bleeding at this point. Aside from Avatar, Fox has been a flop factory for them, so maybe they'll sell that off while keeping some IP they might need.

 

As for Indiana Jones 5, it shouldn't have been made at all. There's virtually no demand for it, the stench of Crystal Skull is too putrid still, and the movie itself isn't good enough to overcome either that or the ruthlessness audiences have been showing to these blockbusters as of late. At least they were smart enough not to make that mistake with National Treasure, and like that property they should've done a small Disney+ series to test the waters first. But hindsight is 20/20.

 

The one good thing that might come out of this is that at least this'll free Mangold up for the Swamp Thing movie.

Disney aren't going to sell any assets, stop with the hyperbole/trolling. 

[Liiviig 1998]

Just finished Indy 5

 

First hour is actually pretty good ,second half gets a bit messy but still fun and PWB character is really  unlikable but she improves by the end .

 

Third act gets wild but not like crystal skull.

 

The actual ending may be a bit anti climatic for some but it was still very emotional send off for Indy .

 

 

This movie felt like two movies ,first half felt like a typical mangold movie ,the second half not so much and felt by the numbers but it was still fun.

 

Overall it's a solid sendoff to Indy and that's works well enough for me

 

First half -9/10
Second half -6.5/10

Overall 7.5/10

 

Ranking

 

 

Last crusade 9/10
Temple of doom 9/10
Raiders.                8/10
Dail of Destiny.   7.5/10
Crystal skull.       6/10

 

[BadOlCatSylvester]

This weekend's going to be hilariously embarassing for Disney. Not only is their $300M nostalgia tentpole going to flop, but Nimona, the movie they threw in the trash, just got released on the exact same day.

 

Speaking of, I highly recommend Nimona! It was great, and well worth the wait. I am so glad Disney didn't keep it, and that it got to keep its charmingly rough edges. It's likely going to be far better than Indy 5 will be, even if I haven't seen the latter yet.

[Jonwo]

The way people go on about Disney and how it's somehow doomed is downright insanity. Every studio has good years and bad years, Paramount had a terrible period in the late 2010s and now has rebounded somewhat. Universal has had many successes this year but it's balanced by the very expensive Fast X plus Ruby Gillman looking DOA. 

 

Tracking numbers has become a bit of a slog moreso than in the Fanboy Wars. 

[wildphantom]

3 minutes ago, Jonwo said:

The way people go on about Disney and how it's somehow doomed is downright insanity. Every studio has good years and bad years, Paramount had a terrible period in the late 2010s and now has rebounded somewhat. Universal has had many successes this year but it's balanced by the very expensive Fast X plus Ruby Gillman looking DOA. 

 

Tracking numbers has become a bit of a slog moreso than in the Fanboy Wars. 

that’s fair, but animation aside, their entire movie slate is almost exclusively IP and franchises.  It’ll be interesting to see if they course correct and start making more economical original live action films to compensate for a precarious IP minefield right now.  Almost like the Touchstone era of the late 80’s might return

[FunkMiller]

Just now, wildphantom said:

that’s fair, but animation aside, their entire movie slate is almost exclusively IP and franchises.  It’ll be interesting to see if they course correct and start making more economical original live action films to compensate for a precarious IP minefield right now.  Almost like the Touchstone era of the late 80’s might return

 

This would be my dream. Disney have such a huge influence over the whole of Hollywood that if it turned away from the bloated budgets and IP strangulation, to favour lower costs and more original stories that carry less risk, then that would be quite marvellous for everyone. 

[Jonwo]

Just now, wildphantom said:

that’s fair, but animation aside, their entire movie slate is almost exclusively IP and franchises.  It’ll be interesting to see if they course correct and start making more economical original live action films to compensate for a precarious IP minefield right now.  Almost like the Touchstone era of the late 80’s might return

Like The Creator for example? I think Fox will be the studio for those types of films but not Disney itself, anytime they've done a lower budget film in recent times, it tends not to do well. 

 

 

[Jonwo]

3 minutes ago, FunkMiller said:

 

This would be my dream. Disney have such a huge influence over the whole of Hollywood that if it turned away from the bloated budgets and IP strangulation, to favour lower costs and more original stories that carry less risk, then that would be quite marvellous for everyone. 

They're not going to stop making high budget films and neither will other studios. That's simply unrealistic especially considering Avatar made over $2bn and they have some of the biggest films of all time. Like or lump it, spectacle sells. 

[InVy]

1 minute ago, FunkMiller said:

 

This would be my dream. Disney have such a huge influence over the whole of Hollywood that if it turned away from the bloated budgets and IP strangulation, to favour lower costs and more original stories that carry less risk, then that would be quite marvellous for everyone. 

Disney live-action will not go away from high budgets - even if they turn back to more original stuff, they'll make films like John Carter which cost a lot. They like to invest a lot in their films, and sometimes they do strike gold like Pirates or Mary Poppins - it is what it is. More risky less expensive stuff is being made by 20th century. 

[YM!]

34 minutes ago, Jonwo said:

Disney aren't going to sell any assets, stop with the hyperbole/trolling. 

I don’t think they will sell assets. More layoffs yes but this year from a theatrical standpoint has been horrible for Disney outside of Guardians. TLM should be profitable due to merchandise but not the hit hoped for and though it seems Elemental can leg itself to a respectable total and give both animation departments some heat of their backs and can start bringing back theatrical good will for both, the 200m budget is steep whereas 400m may not cut it.

 

Marvels and Wish are all that’s left. For the former, you could tell me 450m or 850m and neither would surprise me, and for the latter with competition from Trolls 3 and a busy November - it would need a strong marketing campaign in addition to great reviews. Otherwise whatever Elemental does is in the ballpark for my range.

 

Think Disney just need longer plus windows even if it harms the plus briefly (~6 months) and a new marketing campaign leader because apart from Marvel and Avatar, this guy has forgotten how to sell everything else. Can see a few 20th Century direct to streaming stuff trying theatrical as more mid budget things could help profitability.

Edited June 30, 2023 by YM!

[Jonwo]

3 minutes ago, InVy said:

Disney live-action will not go away from high budgets - even if they turn back to more original stuff, they'll make films like John Carter which cost a lot. They like to invest a lot in their films, and sometimes they do strike gold like Pirates or Mary Poppins - it is what it is. More risky less expensive stuff is being made by 20th century. 

 

No studio unless they're Lionsgate or A24 is going to stop making high budget films. Something like Mission Impossible can't be done on the cheap and we've seen this year and last that original lower budget films don't exactly hit the big time like The Fabelmans or a risky project like Babylon.

[Sckathian]

1 hour ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Yes, white males are so oppressed and never star in movies anymore. You people keep believing your own lies. Indiana Jones is bombing because Harrison Ford is a 1000 years old and nobody fantasizes about going on an adventure at that age. Indy being young was a huge part of his appeal. You take away Harrison Ford at his peak and you have an unappealing project. Lucasfilm should have never made the film. You can't recast the role and Ford is too old. They should have let it die in 2008. 

Exactly. Who actually watched the original trilogy and had an emotional connection to the character anyway? They can play the theme tune as loud as they want but it’s not supposed to indicate Indiana being there but him doing action nonsense and ridiculous feats. 
 

its not a series that’s been selling huge quantities of content in between series.

 

No one has been wondering what Indiana would get up to as an old man. He should frankly be a sleazy creep whose become corrupted by greed over the years.

[Jonwo]

2 minutes ago, YM! said:

I don’t think they will sell assets. More layoffs yes but this year from a theatrical standpoint has been horrible for Disney outside of Guardians. TLM should be profitable due to merchandise but not the hit hoped for and though it seems Elemental can leg itself to a respectable total and give both animation departments some heat of their backs and can start bringing back theatrical good will for both, the 200m budget is steep whereas 400m may not cut it.

 

Marvels and Wish are all that’s left. For the former, you could tell me 450m or 850m and neither would surprise me, and for the latter with competition from Trolls 3 and a busy November - it would need a strong marketing campaign in addition to great reviews. Otherwise whatever Elemental does is in the ballpark for my range.

 

Think Disney just need longer plus windows even if it harms the plus briefly (~6 months) and a new marketing campaign leader because apart from Marvel and Avatar, this guy has forgotten how to sell everything else. Can see a few 20th Century direct to streaming stuff trying theatrical as more mid budget things could help profitability.

 

I think you're overestimating Trolls 3, the first film wasn't exactly a huge hit.