Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[Crainy]

On 12/15/2018 at 4:38 AM, AndyLL said:

Settle down.

 

For a new user you're pretty antagonistic to other members.

 

If you're going to stay around here long enough to see Avatar II release than you might consider starting to respect others opinions.

I do respect other people´s opinions, but Im antagonistic towards people who mock and patronize other people for liking movies they dislike, which is behavior thats extremly common here and on other boards aswell. Thats just bullying and surely that behavior isnt okay either? Afterall you cant expect someone to not be antagonistic towards people who have no problem with questioning your intelligence just because they have a different opinion on movies.

11 hours ago, Yandereprime101189 said:

Yeah, Aquaman kinda beat Avatar 2 to the punch with the underwater space opera concept. I mean never underestimate James Cameron, but still.

Its all about execution and quality. Exploring the deep has been one of Camerons passions for a long time, Aquaman wont hold a candle to the amout of accuracy and quality James Cameron will be able to bring to the table here.

[TimmyRiggins]

On 12/16/2018 at 11:43 AM, Brainbug said:

 

 

Having watched Avatar just 2 days ago, its CGI (without the 3D effect) isnt that special anymore. Infinity War for example had much better CGI. Though thats really not surprising, considering the film came out 9 years ago.

 

You are incorrect. Avatar remains, along with Dawn and War, some of the best VFX work you will ever see (until Avatar 2), ESPECIALLY performance capture. The fact that it was released in 2009 is astounding. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by TimmyRiggins

[TimmyRiggins]

18 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Also just for comparison, you're borderline trolling here @Brainbug

 

I agree with you but making your point with YT quality (worst compression ever, if you want to judge it properly, you should use a Pro Res source), and in addition, effects that were probably unfinished at the time, is not gonna cut it. 

[Crainy]

On 12/16/2018 at 11:43 AM, Brainbug said:

 

 

Having watched Avatar just 2 days ago, its CGI (without the 3D effect) isnt that special anymore. Infinity War for example had much better CGI. Though thats really not surprising, considering the film came out 9 years ago.

There are movies out there now that have better CGI than Avatar, but Infinity War isnt one of them. Marvel movies for the most part have all pretty mediocre technical qualifications and this is true for the CGI aswell. Thanos is well realized in Infinity War, but otherwise the CGI in Infinity War ranges from mediocre to downright bad, its not even close to the grandness and level of complexity that Avatar has. Especially taking into consideration just how massive the amout of CGI is that Avatar actually uses, even compared to most films today.

 

There are certain movies that have surpassed Avatar in certain elements when it comes to VFX (the first 3 Transformers movies, Godzilla 2014, probably TFA, havent seen the Apes movies), but whats still unprecedented is the level of commitment to CGI that Avatar has to build its world and story.

[TomCruiseTop]

29 minutes ago, TimmyRiggins said:

 

You are incorrect. Avatar remains, along with Dawn and War, some of the best VFX work you will ever see (until Avatar 2), ESPECIALLY performance capture. The fact that it was released in 2009 is astounding. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Maurice the Orangutan is a masterpiece. 

[TimmyRiggins]

I'd disagree that there is anything in the three TF films, Godzilla or TFA that surpasses Avatar in terms of VFX. Not that they're even comparable anyway?! As you said, most of Avatar is filled to the brim with CG in almost every shot, and that although there are small sets for Pandora itself, the outdoors, most of it is pure CG. And it's still astounding, it feels like a real world, the Na'Vis are photoreal, I'll give you maybe some of the crowd shots where it's possible some of the Na'Vis that aren't the leads are perhaps less detailed but even then, it never falters.

 

I'm restating what you said a bit here, but it was just to make a point. 

 

There are so many shots that are still breathtaking to this day when the light looks a certain way, ie Jake and Neytiri approaching the banshees, just before Jake is about go to try and grab one, Neytiri lays her hand on his chest and tells him a few things before he goes. The moment where he says "Outstanding" for example. 

 

Or I don't know, when Jake wakes up after the Hometree has been blown to pieces, with the ashes raining all around him. Or the duel vs Quaritch, and so many others. I'd argue that it's still unsurpassed, only Dawn and War are on the same level, and they're apes, not humanoid blueish creatures.

[Crainy]

5 minutes ago, TimmyRiggins said:

I'd disagree that there is anything in the three TF films, Godzilla or TFA that surpasses Avatar in terms of VFX. Not that they're even comparable anyway?! As you said, most of Avatar is filled to the brim with CG in almost every shot, and that although there are small sets for Pandora itself, the outdoors, most of it is pure CG. And it's still astounding, it feels like a real world, the Na'Vis are photoreal, I'll give you maybe some of the crowd shots where it's possible some of the Na'Vis that aren't the leads are perhaps less detailed but even then, it never falters.

 

I'm restating what you said a bit here, but it was just to make a point. 

 

There are so many shots that are still breathtaking to this day when the light looks a certain way, ie Jake and Neytiri approaching the banshees, just before Jake is about go to try and grab one, Neytiri lays her hand on his chest and tells him a few things before he goes. The moment where he says "Outstanding" for example. 

 

Or I don't know, when Jake wakes up after the Hometree has been blown to pieces, with the ashes raining all around him. Or the duel vs Quaritch, and so many others. I'd argue that it's still unsurpassed, only Dawn and War are on the same level, and they're apes, not humanoid blueish creatures.

Thats why I said "in certain elements". And of course you are right when you say its not directly comparable. However, with that said, the Transformers in Transformers 1 and 3 look more photorealistic than anything in Avatar, they are an incredible accomplishment of CGI design.

 

Its not a fair comparison seeing how they are two very different types of movies, but its still the case. Its especially notable when comparing something like an Avatar mech to Optimus Prime, there is a gap in quality there.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Crainy

[TimmyRiggins]

12 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Maurice the Orangutan is a masterpiece. 

The Jungle Book would fit in that category for sure. But then again, even the Apes films and this are so different from Avatar. There's simply no other film like Avatar with that scale of worldbuilding, creatures, alien environments, it's unparalleled. Ready Player One although it's on purpose not meant to look exactly like the real world is also an incredible feat. 

[TomCruiseTop]

Also note that DAJK never replied when I gave him a response as to why this worked. The roaches scatter when faced with evidence. (Pretend Gaga is Quaritch). 

[titanic2187]

the best visual effect that Jim ever pulled was this.....minimal CGI, but really enhancing the practical effect....

 

[IronJimbo]

1 hour ago, TimmyRiggins said:

I agree with you but making your point with YT quality (worst compression ever, if you want to judge it properly, you should use a Pro Res source), and in addition, effects that were probably unfinished at the time, is not gonna cut it. 

You want me to upload the films and post them here??? Isnt that agaisnt the terms and conditions of the site.

[dashrendar44]

3 hours ago, Crainy said:

Its all about execution and quality. Exploring the deep has been one of Camerons passions for a long time, Aquaman wont hold a candle to the amout of accuracy and quality James Cameron will be able to bring to the table here.

Cameron got more ambition than just making "Star Wars underwater".

[IronJimbo]

2 hours ago, dashrendar44 said:

Cameron got more ambition than just making "Star Wars underwater".

Well said.

 

On another note I don't expect more than 30 minutes screentime underwater, it will be less. It's a freediving tribe not an underwater tribe.

[AndyLL]

5 hours ago, Crainy said:

I do respect other people´s opinions, but Im antagonistic towards people who mock and patronize other people for liking movies they dislike, which is behavior thats extremly common here and on other boards aswell. Thats just bullying and surely that behavior isnt okay either? Afterall you cant expect someone to not be antagonistic towards people who have no problem with questioning your intelligence just because they have a different opinion on movies.

@Telemachos has never "mocked or patronized" a new member as long as he's been on these forums.  ( which was as a founding staff member )

 

I wasn't asking you to consider taking a different tone when posting... I was politely telling you that the staff found your posts borderline unacceptable.

 

I am now telling you less politely that if it continues you will be banned from posting in this thread.

 

And as a general warning to everybody... trying to pump up Avatar and Avatar 2-n by tearing down other films will not be tolerated.   Lets keep to the talk here on Avatar itself and take the comparisons to other movies to the Franchise War thread.

[TomCruiseTop]

33 minutes ago, AndyLL said:

And as a general warning to everybody... trying to pump up Avatar and Avatar 2-n by tearing down other films will not be tolerated.   Lets keep to the talk here on Avatar itself and take the comparisons to other movies to the Franchise War thread.

Noted. I'll make sure to take my Avatar vs the World ideas there. 

[Lothar]

39 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

Noted. I'll make sure to take my Avatar vs the World ideas there. 

There should be a thread called "Pandora vs Earth" or vs the rest.

[IronJimbo]

2 hours ago, AndyLL said:

@Telemachos has never "mocked or patronized" a new member as long as he's been on these forums.  ( which was as a founding staff member )

 

I wasn't asking you to consider taking a different tone when posting... I was politely telling you that the staff found your posts borderline unacceptable.

 

I am now telling you less politely that if it continues you will be banned from posting in this thread.

 

And as a general warning to everybody... trying to pump up Avatar and Avatar 2-n by tearing down other films will not be tolerated.  Lets keep to the talk here on Avatar itself and take the comparisons to other movies to the Franchise War thread.

I would call the discussion of Avatar's CGI versus the blockbuster of the year's CGI related to Avatar itself but that's just me.

 

Proactive enforcement though! We can't have the thread about the sequel to the highest grossing blockbuster (#1) of all time going off the rails.

[Crainy]

2 hours ago, AndyLL said:

@Telemachos has never "mocked or patronized" a new member as long as he's been on these forums.  ( which was as a founding staff member )

 

I wasn't asking you to consider taking a different tone when posting... I was politely telling you that the staff found your posts borderline unacceptable.

 

I am now telling you less politely that if it continues you will be banned from posting in this thread.

 

And as a general warning to everybody... trying to pump up Avatar and Avatar 2-n by tearing down other films will not be tolerated.   Lets keep to the talk here on Avatar itself and take the comparisons to other movies to the Franchise War thread.

Assuming that I havent watched alot of movies because I appreciate Avatar is patronizing and disrespectful and I wont have you or anyone else tell me it isnt. And dont worry, I understood your request and I will follow it. I just wish this kind of proactive enforcement promoting acceptance would be seen on this board in other threads and other situations aswell, it would surely result in alot more fruitful discussion taking place.

[Plain Old Tele]

11 minutes ago, Crainy said:

Assuming that I havent watched alot of movies because I appreciate Avatar is patronizing and disrespectful and I wont have you or anyone else tell me it isnt. And dont worry, I understood your request and I will follow it. I just wish this kind of proactive enforcement promoting acceptance would be seen on this board in other threads and other situations aswell, it would surely result in alot more fruitful discussion taking place.

 

tbh I wasn't making that lot of movies reference specifically to you, I was just trying to point out that people react in all sorts of ways to any kind of media art, and at least if we're talking on personal reaction level, there's no real "wrong" -- that was their reaction! You may disagree with it, you might think they're clueless for not getting, or whatever, but that doesn't really change anything. And vice versa, of course.

 

If someone goes to see the Mona Lisa and it doesn't do anything for them, well, that's fine. We can point out the wide range of commentary or insight provided by scholars or critics or historians, we can point out that most people really like it, but if they don't like it, they don't like it. That's cool. Really.

 

I've watched a bunch of movies and I liked AVATAR too. And I don't have any problem if someone doesn't like it or hates it. It doesn't make them wrong. Nothing is going to appeal to everyone.

[AndyLL]

You're posts

 

On 12/14/2018 at 2:34 PM, Crainy said:

If thats the statement you are gonna make after watching a movie like Avatar, your opinion isnt even worth considering.

 

On 12/14/2018 at 2:44 PM, Crainy said:

No Im not, Im not married to Avatar. But you cant deny that a statement like in your post I initially responded to is devoid of any valuable thought.

 

On 12/14/2018 at 3:08 PM, Crainy said:

Consider that Avatar is a much more thematically complex film than you are able to discern on a first viewing and that you are not a god of media literacy that is able to immediately understand the many thematic elements that James Cameron put into his masterpiece. That you follow the trend of saying the movie is just like Dance with the Wolves or Pocahontas very clearly tells me how shallow your opinion is. Its one of these things that people say because they sound clever but arent actually clever. The movie deals with various different themes and once you understand the more nuanced writing in the movie, you will come to realize that Avatar only resembles movies like Pocahontas on a very superficial level. They do not have the same thematic core at all.

 

If you arent willing to put the time into properly understanding a piece of art before finalizing your opinion on it, thats your own business. But if you do that, like with all things in life, you have to accept that your opinion is automatically worth less than the people that do look at art more closely.

 

 

And Tele's post....

 

On 12/14/2018 at 3:14 PM, Telemachos said:

You're not gonna change someone's opinion just by saying they're wrong. They're not wrong, we all react to different movies in different ways. If you dig AVATAR (and I do), it's because the setting/themes/presentation trump the very traditional, conventional story. If you don't have as strong a connection (and you've seen a lot of movies), maybe you get more bothered by the conventionality of the characters and plot.

 

It's cool. Plenty of room for everyone.

 

I think the 2 sets of posts speak for themselves and I'll leave it at that.