Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[Borobudur]

1 hour ago, Bruce said:

This is nonsense,AEG just add some screens ,not Re-Release

Isn't that is what happened to Avatar re-release too?

[LPLC]

21 minutes ago, Borobudur said:

Isn't that is what happened to Avatar re-release too?

No and Avatar 1st run is $2749M now with re-release it's $2847M ($98M more)

Avengers Endgame 1st run is $2798M

[Tarintino]

6 hours ago, grey ghost said:

 

Yeah when Marvel wins they just re-release Avatar.

Didnt they re-release Endgame just to top Avatar? Anyways I never classed Endgame as winning given it needed a 60% market expansion and 10 years of inflation just to squeak by Avatar by a measly 2%. Considering the previous 2 record holders did it with such style, Endgames felt more like a an example of how big the market has become rather than being as impressive as the likes of Titanic or Avatar

[LPLC]

9 minutes ago, Tarintino said:

Didnt they re-release Endgame just to top Avatar? Anyways I never classed Endgame as winning given it needed a 60% market expansion and 10 years of inflation just to squeak by Avatar by a measly 2%. Considering the previous 2 record holders did it with such style, Endgames felt more like a an example of how big the market has become rather than being as impressive as the likes of Titanic or Avatar

Inflation was bigger in 2009 after global economic crisis that now and in addition Avatar had the advantage of 3D which had just arrived and which caused prices to increase even more. Look at the numbers it made in Russia/Australia/Spain/Italy and many other countries. With the same number of admits today, the receipts would be much lower.

 

If you want we can compare the admissions of AEG and Avatar and you will understand that Marvel has no limit

 

AEG: 393 million admissions

 

Avatar: 286M admissions

 

 Not comparable...

[Tarintino]

5 hours ago, grey ghost said:

 They just added some extra scenes. It wasn't re-released.

 

Either way Marvel beat Avatar so pretending Avatar is infinite while Marvel is limited makes no sense.

 

Maybe if Marvel peaked at Avengers 1 like some here predicted then maybe.

It is limited, you would never see a comic book movie, even Endgame come close to 2.8b back im 2009. Endgame making 2.8b so recently just shows how much higher the ceiling has become for grosses, unfortunately its hard for that ceiling to be tested as studios only care about CBM's and they will never create new highs without the huge help from expansion, like Endgame had

[vc2002]

Audio from The Rock bluray commentary track, which Ed Harris talks about how Michael Bay was fanboying Cameron.

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by vc2002

[Borobudur]

18 minutes ago, LPLC said:

No and Avatar 1st run is $2749M now with re-release it's $2847M ($98M more)

Avengers Endgame 1st run is $2798M

Irrelevant answer, that is not what i want to say from my comment earlier. What i want to say is both endgame and avatar have different version released in the theater. It just the way they report where endgame includes all version in one go but avatar reported in different tranches. The extended edition release wasn't even the more than a year from initial release, and the extended version released almost instantly right after the first release.

 

For endgame otherwise, the re-release feel very intentional and artificial, They just smash it in right after the movie ends without proper editing, the VFX isn't even rendered. At least avatar added in proper scenes in the movie with actual chronological order. Most importantly, avatar was ALREADY the biggest grosser of all time before the re-release and that was not the case for EG. 

[Tarintino]

9 minutes ago, LPLC said:

Inflation was bigger in 2009 after global economic crisis that now and in addition Avatar had the advantage of 3D which had just arrived and which caused prices to increase even more. Look at the numbers it made in Russia/Australia/Spain/Italy and many other countries. With the same number of admits today, the receipts would be much lower.

 

If you want we can compare the admissions of AEG and Avatar and you will understand that Marvel has no limit

 

AEG: 393 million admissions

 

Avatar: 286M admissions

 

 Not comparable...

 

My 2d ticket for Endgame was far more expensive than my 3d ticket for Avatar back in the day so that argument can be put to rest. Endgame has more tickets sold because as i said, the market expanded 60%. So yes its not comparable as far more people were able to watch Endgame than Avatar. It made 650m in china afterall so of course it sold more tickets. 

 

Take away the expanded markets and Endgame isn't close to avatar

[Sophia Jane]

3 hours ago, LPLC said:

Inflation was bigger in 2009 after global economic crisis that now and in addition Avatar had the advantage of 3D which had just arrived and which caused prices to increase even more. Look at the numbers it made in Russia/Australia/Spain/Italy and many other countries. With the same number of admits today, the receipts would be much lower.

 

If you want we can compare the admissions of AEG and Avatar and you will understand that Marvel has no limit

 

AEG: 393 million admissions

 

Avatar: 286M admissions

 

 Not comparable...

Compare Admissions is not fair for Avatar,Titanic is monster,but Asia market grown 10 big times than past,Avatar 2 beat Avatar 1 WW Admissions easily with China help

Avatar Performance is Probably 3nd of all time behind Titanic and Gone with the wind,it beat most countries box office record and take year champion in almost every country

[peludo]

28 minutes ago, Bruce said:

Compare Admissions is not fair for Avatar,Titanic is monster,but Asia market grown 10 big times than past,Avatar 2 beat Avatar 1 WW Admissions easily with China help

Avatar Performance is Probably 3nd of all time behind Titanic and Gone with the wind,it beat most countries box office record and take year champion in almost every country

Pretty agree. Although prices were bloated and ERs were incredibly favorable, Avatar set absurd records in many countries. It multiplied by x3 the previous all time record in China. It ranked #1 for 4 years and a half there until TF4 came. Not even Wolf Warrior 2 has been for a so long time on top spot.

 

Somebody has mentioned the WW admissions of both films. How many admissions would have sold Avatar in China with today potential? The growth of expanding markets should be seriously taken into account when you compare WW admissions. Avatar grossed 1.3b Yuan, a 13% of the total market in 2010. A 13% of 2019 Chinese market was about 7.5b-8b Yuan, about $1.1b-$1.2b... I am not saying Avatar would have grossed those 1.1-1.2b in China in same conditions than Endgame, but I think it is relevant for the debate.

Edited March 8, 2022 by peludo

[hw64]

We've had these arguments before. Endgame was no Avatar. It beat Avatar's unadjusted gross (barely — by less than a quarter of a percentage point, and even then only through a contrived expansion/re-release designed to push it past) due to generally higher local currency average ticket prices and, in particular, huge market expansion from 2009 to 2019, not only in the obvious example of China but also in Brazil, Mexico, India, Indonesia, Colombia, and most of the rest of Asia, South America, and Eastern Europe (even established markets like Russia and South Korea grew significantly between 2009 and 2019). Avatar's gross was boosted by very favorable exchange rates, but the effect of those exchange rates pales in comparison to the expansion in China alone, let alone the growth in the rest of the markets mentioned above.

 

Market expansion is also the reason why Endgame sold more tickets than Avatar, and also why Endgame's ticket sales are way closer to Titanic's than they should be, as both films — and Titanic in particular — were significantly bigger than Endgame. Avatar, I would estimate, is probably around a $3.5b film with the same market sizes and ticket prices as Endgame, and Titanic is probably a $4.5b+ film. The single biggest market skewing the ticket sales comparisons is China, where Endgame sold 85m+ tickets to Avatar's 27m and Titanic's <20m, despite Titanic and Avatar both probably being bigger in China than Endgame was for the market conditions during their respective releases. Take China from the comparison, and the picture becomes more clear, even though there's still market expansion in dozens of other markets to consider.

Edited March 8, 2022 by hw64

[cdsacken]

4 hours ago, LPLC said:

Inflation was bigger in 2009 after global economic crisis that now and in addition Avatar had the advantage of 3D which had just arrived and which caused prices to increase even more. Look at the numbers it made in Russia/Australia/Spain/Italy and many other countries. With the same number of admits today, the receipts would be much lower.

 

If you want we can compare the admissions of AEG and Avatar and you will understand that Marvel has no limit

 

AEG: 393 million admissions

 

Avatar: 286M admissions

 

 Not comparable...

 

International currency was so much higher versus the dollar back then too. Admissions show just how much different it was. For christ sakes it had 35% more admissions.

Edited March 8, 2022 by cdsacken

[Eric Duncan]

Moderation

 

Guys we're not doing this Endgame vs. Avatar stuff anymore. It's really, really, really not needed here. At all.

[Tarintino]

15 minutes ago, Eric Says Trans Rights said:

Moderation

 

Guys we're not doing this Endgame vs. Avatar stuff anymore. It's really, really, really not needed here. At all.

Oh I made my post before seeing this

[Sophia Jane]

41 minutes ago, Eric Says Trans Rights said:

Moderation

 

Guys we're not doing this Endgame vs. Avatar stuff anymore. It's really, really, really not needed here. At all.

This kind of competition is totally nonsense,why shall we have to compare two great movie?

How about we talk about The Shawshank redepetmion or The Godfther ,which is better movie in the movie history?The answer is,they both extremly great,same to Avatar and AEG

Edited March 8, 2022 by Bruce

[Tarintino]

32 minutes ago, Bruce said:

This kind of competition is totally nonsense,why shall we have to compare two great movie?

How about we talk about The Shawshank redepetmion or The Godfther ,which is better movie in the movie history?The answer is,they both extremly great,same to Avatar and AEG

 

Comparing the quality of 2 movies is subjective though whereas comparing how 2 movies performed in a market is less about opinion and more about figures and facts

 

Being a box office site it seems like an obvious comparisson to be made, especially as it shows how the markets have changed. I like these little debates because every now and then I learn something I never knew before, like Endgame's number of tickets sold. They are interesting to discuss

[grey ghost]

6 hours ago, Tarintino said:

Didnt they re-release Endgame just to top Avatar? Anyways I never classed Endgame as winning given it needed a 60% market expansion and 10 years of inflation just to squeak by Avatar by a measly 2%. Considering the previous 2 record holders did it with such style, Endgames felt more like a an example of how big the market has become rather than being as impressive as the likes of Titanic or Avatar

 

Avatar got released three times.

 

You act like Marvel can't come close to Avatar which is false. They already beat Avatar once.

 

Saying Avatar is untouchable doesn't make sense. It was already touched.

[grey ghost]

6 hours ago, Tarintino said:

It is limited, you would never see a comic book movie, even Endgame come close to 2.8b back im 2009. Endgame making 2.8b so recently just shows how much higher the ceiling has become for grosses, unfortunately its hard for that ceiling to be tested as studios only care about CBM's and they will never create new highs without the huge help from expansion, like Endgame had

 

Avatar had the 3D gimmick/prices and less competition entertainment wise.

 

We'll see how Avatar 2 does in today's market.

[Elessar]

59 minutes ago, Tarintino said:

I like these little debates because every now and then I learn something I never knew before, like Endgame's number of tickets sold. They are interesting to discuss

 

We don't really know how many tickets either movie sold worldwide. The numbers posted here are rough guestimates by one user.

[Issac Newton]

Appreciate the efforts to dump one another.

 

Spoiler

BTW, to be true, I consider Avatar to be iconic, while Endgame sounds better only with it's Global Opening. Admits are totally a different story, more/less everyone knows where Avatar will stand with Endgame admits