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Skipper Eric

Weekend Thread: SW 26.2/25.3/21 72.5M | Jumanji 11.7/12.4/11 35.1M | Frozen 6/5.85/5.3 17.15M

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FB3 will be the deciding factor of the series. Only if it's received well will it do good business and allow for the final battle between Dumbledore and Grindelwald to be shown. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, cedec0 said:

 

 

Mandalorian is doing well because it is focusing on the half of the star wars brand that is relatively undamaged:  the Western sci-fi side.  The other half of the star wars brand, which has been horribly damaged, will be much harder to salvage.

 

To understand the part of star wars that lies in ruins, you have to understand the two elements that turned star wars into a multi-billion dollar franchise.  One part was western science fiction, and the other part was Chinese martial arts fiction (referred to as wuxia)

 

Below is a description of elements found in nearly every wuxia novel:  (it should seem familiar.)

 

 

The best way to describe the first six star wars film is a beautiful mixture of Easter martial art fiction and Western sci-fi fiction.  Problem is, lucasfilm has been managed by people who think of star wars as "wizards with laser swords".  These people didn't understand that star wars was the world's most valuable martial arts franchise, with horrifying results.

 

 

How do you break a martial arts franchise?  Here is how.   You have a nobody from nowhere, who has never trained a single day in martial arts, pick up a sword for the first time and defeat one the galaxy's strongest martial artists, who has trained for decades on how use the force and the sword.  That is how you turn a martial arts franchise into a joke.  How you turn star wars into "wizards with laser swords".

 

In both wuxia and the OT/PT, being force/qi sensative means nothing without training in the martial arts.  You don't become a master martial artist without training, period, this is common sense.  TFA badly damage the wuxia side of star wars.  TLJ finished it off.

 

In TLJ, Rey is able to lift ten times more stuff than Yoda, with essentially zero training.  This completely breaks the martial arts side of star wars.  Not only can someone with zero training do the same things as martial artists who have trained centuries, they can do it ten times better.  Sigh...

 

In the first six movies, the force/jedi were based on chinese martial arts lore (talented individuals gain strength through training).  In the last three movies, the force/jedi was based on a bad version of Harry Potter (sense the force, poof  >> jedi master).

 

A four billion dollar martial arts franchise was put in the hands of people who think martial artists are wizards...

 

------------------------------------

 

EDIT:  It should also be clear from this why TROS is bombing in China.  They see the corruption of the wuxia side of star wars far clearer there.

 

 

Has starwars ever been a huge Franchise in China to begin with ? Because the way you are describing it,it sounds like China was onboard with the Original Starwars but has now abandoned it because of this "corruption of wuxia side of SW". Maybe they never bought this martial arts nonsense in the first place.

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Frozen2 over Rise of Skywalker DOM?? I was expecting both in the 600m range but looks like they'll struggle to hit 500m.

 

edit: if Disney releases a sing-along of F2 then it has a edge over Rise

Edited by XO21
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17 minutes ago, Damien said:

Has starwars ever been a huge Franchise in China to begin with ? Because the way you are describing it,it sounds like China was onboard with the Original Starwars but has now abandoned it because of this "corruption of wuxia side of SW". Maybe they never bought this martial arts nonsense in the first place.

 

Yea, exactly this.

 

No pretending otherwise, China was never into Star Wars. There was a big launch and buy in for the Force Awakens. But really nothing other than that. The Force Awakens was given a change and was rejected. Simple.

 

And there's a much bigger cultural reason for that than "the corruption of wuxia" or whatever.

 

It's a pretty consistent cultural tendency that China does not take well to "The Chosen One" stories.

 

The Person Who Was Born Special is antithetical to Chinese culture and stories of this type almost never work out there. And obviously "The chosen one" is central to the Skywalker saga. 

Edited by Ipickthiswhiterose
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3 hours ago, Daniel Vasquez said:

Wow! Frozen II got a drop from Friday, I thought it will have a increase but guess not 😔

 

2 hours ago, catlover said:

Isn't that normal though? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

2 hours ago, ChiSoxRox said:

That pattern has held for the past three years (Moana, Coco, Ralph Breaks the Internet), and 2015/16 only breaks the pattern due to Saturday being the day after Christmas/New Years.

2013 with same calendar config as 2019

- (-) Frozen Walt Disney $10,006,528 -2% +30% 3,335 $3,000 $239,695,910 37
- (-) Saving Mr. Banks Walt Disney $5,041,636 +7% +47% 2,110 $2,389 $33,584,942 16
- (-) The Secret Life of Walter… 20th Century… $4,758,452 +5%   2,909 $1,636 $21,888,713 4
- (-) The Hunger Games: Catchin… Lionsgate $3,696,908 +8% +9% 2,315 $1,597 $388,053,784 37
- (-) 47 Ronin Universal $3,630,150 +5%   2,689 $1,350 $17,802,525 4
- (-) Tyler Perry's A Madea Chr… Lionsgate $2,721,552 +8% -20% 1,788 $1,522 $41,566,509 16
- (-) Walking with Dinosaurs 20th Century… $2,610,211 +3% -7% 3,243 $805 $18,803,309

9

 

Edited by a2k
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27 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

Yea, exactly this.

 

No pretending otherwise, China was never into Star Wars. There was a big launch and buy in for the Force Awakens. But really nothing other than that. The Force Awakens was given a change and was rejected. Simple.

 

And there's a much bigger cultural reason for that than "the corruption of wuxia" or whatever.

 

It's a pretty consistent cultural tendency that China does not take well to "The Chosen One" stories.

 

The Person Who Was Born Special is antithetical to Chinese culture and stories of this type almost never work out there. And obviously "The chosen one" is central to the Skywalker saga. 

Avatar says hi.

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27 minutes ago, a2k said:

 

 

2013 with same calendar config as 2019

- (-) Frozen Walt Disney $10,006,528 -2% +30% 3,335 $3,000 $239,695,910 37
- (-) Saving Mr. Banks Walt Disney $5,041,636 +7% +47% 2,110 $2,389 $33,584,942 16
- (-) The Secret Life of Walter… 20th Century… $4,758,452 +5%   2,909 $1,636 $21,888,713 4
- (-) The Hunger Games: Catchin… Lionsgate $3,696,908 +8% +9% 2,315 $1,597 $388,053,784 37
- (-) 47 Ronin Universal $3,630,150 +5%   2,689 $1,350 $17,802,525 4
- (-) Tyler Perry's A Madea Chr… Lionsgate $2,721,552 +8% -20% 1,788 $1,522 $41,566,509 16
- (-) Walking with Dinosaurs 20th Century… $2,610,211 +3% -7% 3,243 $805 $18,803,309

9

 

So Frozen 1 decreased, but the films with similar daily grosses to Frozen 2 ($5m) had increases. 
 

Looks like everything will have dropped yesterday 

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36 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

Yea, exactly this.

 

No pretending otherwise, China was never into Star Wars. There was a big launch and buy in for the Force Awakens. But really nothing other than that. The Force Awakens was given a change and was rejected. Simple.

 

And there's a much bigger cultural reason for that than "the corruption of wuxia" or whatever.

 

It's a pretty consistent cultural tendency that China does not take well to "The Chosen One" stories.

 

The Person Who Was Born Special is antithetical to Chinese culture and stories of this type almost never work out there. And obviously "The chosen one" is central to the Skywalker saga. 

Harry Potter is the chosen one too and Chinese people love Harry Potter franchise

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59 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

Yea, exactly this.

 

No pretending otherwise, China was never into Star Wars. There was a big launch and buy in for the Force Awakens. But really nothing other than that. The Force Awakens was given a change and was rejected. Simple.

 

And there's a much bigger cultural reason for that than "the corruption of wuxia" or whatever.

 

It's a pretty consistent cultural tendency that China does not take well to "The Chosen One" stories.

 

The Person Who Was Born Special is antithetical to Chinese culture and stories of this type almost never work out there. And obviously "The chosen one" is central to the Skywalker saga.

All chinese martial movies or shows are mostly about guys that are either born genius or inherits immense power lol.

 

They love the chosen one trope.

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15 minutes ago, Dbui8743 said:

All chinese martial movies or shows are mostly about guys that are either born genius or inherits immense power lol.

 

They love the chosen one trope.

This would indicate that they are not in any way about "learning" in the way that was suggested in this thread.

 

Film cannot simultaneously be about being the chosen one, and about learning mastery.

 

One of the most ridiculous statements I see made about Star Wars is the implication that Luke, in contrast to Ray, spent ages training. In the movies he spends a handful of days, mostly failing, and between Empire and Jedi perhaps he has longer to learn but is doing so without a master or any source of knowledge.

Edited by Ipickthiswhiterose
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43 minutes ago, The Futurist said:

Avatar says hi.

It can say hi all it likes, nobody in Avatar is born as the chosen one, or is special by birth.

 

They become special by circumstance and personal connection.

 

As for Harry Potter, my impression is that China is just okay with Harry Potter, no more no less. I could be wrong.

 

Look, I might well be wrong on this, that's fine, but it seems one way or another than something very fundamental is dissonant between Chinese culture and Star Wars and that dynamic predates this trilogy by a long time. Investigating why ROS specifically hasn't done well in China is futile, in other words, because that would imply there should have been any expectation in the first place, when clearly there shouldn't based on the recent and far past.

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6 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

It can say hi all it likes, nobody in Avatar is born as the chosen one, or is special by birth.

 

They become special by circumstance and personal connection.

 

As for Harry Potter, my impression is that China is just okay with Harry Potter, no more no less. I could be wrong.

 

Look, I might well be wrong on this, that's fine, but it seems one way or another than something very fundamental is dissonant between Chinese culture and Star Wars and that dynamic predates this trilogy by a long time. Investigating why ROS specifically hasn't done well in China is futile, in other words, because that would imply there should have been any expectation in the first place, when clearly there shouldn't based on the recent and far past.

DH2 did $60m in 2011. That was huge. In today's prices, it would easily be over $150m. 

 

FB was also popular....FB2 wasn't, though. 

 

Potter is very popular in China. Fantastic Beasts is what you would call just okay.

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1 hour ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

Yea, exactly this.

 

No pretending otherwise, China was never into Star Wars. There was a big launch and buy in for the Force Awakens. But really nothing other than that. The Force Awakens was given a change and was rejected. Simple.

 

And there's a much bigger cultural reason for that than "the corruption of wuxia" or whatever.

 

It's a pretty consistent cultural tendency that China does not take well to "The Chosen One" stories.

 

The Person Who Was Born Special is antithetical to Chinese culture and stories of this type almost never work out there. And obviously "The chosen one" is central to the Skywalker saga. 

So many theories about what China 'likes' and why it couldn't possibly love SW–like it's this inherently lovable thing–but it's most likely as simple as: SW is not that great if you don't have that childhood lens. Not just a 'China' problem too. The markets that missed out on its initial hype likely don't 'get' it now, because they probably saw a lot of better sci-fi movies first. Like you know 'SW' is a 'thing' and at first you bought into the hype, but then after a couple it's like, this is just... fine.  While the internet diehards debate the intricacies of each character and wax about legacies or whether it was some scene that ruined everything for everyone, there's a large swathe of people just shrugging and feeling glad there'll be less peer pressure to go see these movies. I'm sure many kids born after this year will grow to be adults who won't be as geeked at the Avengers' first assemble because screen-sharing superheroes is all they'll know anyway. All in all, nothing is a big deal forever. As long as Disney keeps chipping away at the novelty of it with each movie/spinoff/tv-show, people will lose even more interest because there's little differentiation and it's ubiquitous. 

 

 

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The franchise had the opportunity to grow in China. They were interested to see what the fuss was about. The notion that it was "never popular" and could therefore never succeed is wrong IMO cause that implies China would have never given the franchise a chance but as we saw with TFA and to a lesser extent Rogue One that wasn't the case. They tried it and said no thanks. 

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I have a lot of Chinese friends, and they say that original Star Wars aren't popular in China at all, so the sequel trilogy's being a copy-paste of the OT actually hurt it in China, where people were introduced to Star Wars through the prequels (which did pretty well for their time and later were pirated a lot).

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3 minutes ago, Boxofficerules said:

I’m starting to suspect that Black Christmas may not get late legs and become a box office sensation.

Why did you think it would be come a sensation.

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10 minutes ago, thedast said:

So many theories about what China 'likes' and why it couldn't possibly love SW–like it's this inherently lovable thing–but it's most likely as simple as: SW is not that great if you don't have that childhood lens. Not just a 'China' problem too. The markets that missed out on its initial hype likely don't 'get' it now, because they probably saw a lot of better sci-fi movies first. Like you know 'SW' is a 'thing' and at first you bought into the hype, but then after a couple it's like, this is just... fine.  While the internet diehards debate the intricacies of each character and wax about legacies or whether it was some scene that ruined everything for everyone, there's a large swathe of people just shrugging and feeling glad there'll be less peer pressure to go see these movies.

 

Yes, I'll happily cede that this is a more important dynamic.

 

However one feels about the entertainment value as blockbuster fare, Star Wars simply hasn't produced a great movie, give or take Rogue One and how one feels about it, for nearly 40 years. And even with those great movies there are those who won't take to the dated FX/nature of the dialogue/different style etc

 

I'm only ok with Star Wars. And other than the fact I see most movies I could give or take it.

 

It also struggles to be a 'World" IMO far more than, say, Harry Potter or even Pandora, hence why I think Galaxy's Edge has struggled (pre: all-time-great-ride) to create an immersive experience. The 'world' is kind of just generic sci-fi could-be-anything space. It's the characters and feel people were initially invested in.

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17 minutes ago, therana said:

I have a lot of Chinese friends, and they say that original Star Wars aren't popular in China at all, so the sequel trilogy's being a copy-paste of the OT actually hurt it in China, where people were introduced to Star Wars through the prequels (which did pretty well for their time and later were pirated a lot).


Gavin Feng also said something like this a few days ago: The whole futuristic aesthetic of the Prequel Trilogy was much more appealing to the Chinese market than the Sequel Trilogy, which has pretty much only focused on barren and empty planets.

 

But ofc Disney/Lucasfilm for some reason tries to avoid acknowledging the prequels as much as possible, so they doubled down on the original trilogy nostalgia, which evidently didn’t really work outside of TFA in not only China, but in many other emerging markets.

 

Which is also why I don’t think The Mandalorian is really building back goodwill for the Star Wars brand on a global scale.
TM is pretty much a sci-fi Western, so it’s very appealing to Star Wars’ core fans in North America, where also most of the buzz and hype is coming from.
 

But I personally doubt that it would be as appealing to international audiences as it is to Star Wars’ core market, so I hope Lucasfilm doesn’t just think that the next right thing to do is to make movies like The Mandalorian, because that’s getting lots of hype right now, cause I really can’t see movies like that exciting audiences worldwide.

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