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[iHeartJames]

20 minutes ago, Jonwo said:

I am impressed Sam Raimi was able to use horror tropes in a MCU film and still make it PG-13

 

Wanda will be back although I wonder if we might see Magneto introduced into the MCU as her real father. I know the comic retconned that Magneto wasn't her father but the MCU could reverse that for their version.

 

 

Which is why I'm confused the comics retconned Americas origin yet the MCU used her original Utopia origin story with her moms

[MOVIEGUY]

I liked it. Starts out kinda boring and too heavy on MCU lore, but Raimi really starts hamming it up in the second half. The climax is basically huge budget Evil Dead which is pretty great.

 

I didn't watch WandaVision, and it did feel like watching a sequel to a movie you didn't see, but they explain what you need to know. I don't see why people have a problem with her being a villain when she's clearly the best character in the movie. Her casually murdering the lame Avengers ruled, I loved that after all the hype over the cameos, the fun ended up being watching them all get killed. Raimi definitely got to bring his visceral sensibility, compare the deaths in this to Aunt May's lame ass vague fatal injury and it's night and day.

 

Also Danny Elfman went ham on the music.

 

Strange throwing up after his trip through the multiverse was a great "the kids don't get it but we do" joke

Edited May 8, 2022 by MOVIEGUY

[MOVIEGUY]

3 hours ago, FilmFincher said:

And that little montage as Mordo explains dream walking, and we get all those fades and superimposing of Wanda reading the dark hold, and the music is just going hard. Bravo Raimi. 

 

Loved that part

[MrPink]

7 hours ago, RobrtmanAStarWarsReference said:

Days of Future Past

 

...I don't even recall him dying in this one?

[Orestes]

10 minutes ago, MrPink said:

 

...I don't even recall him dying in this one?

He gets zapped by a Sentinel just before the future is changed, but its sort of off screen.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Orestes

[MrPink]

3 minutes ago, Orestes said:

He gets zapped by a Sentinel just before the future is changed, but its sort of off screen.

 

I always sort of assumed that the future was changed just before he got zapped?

 

Is my life a lie? Am I film illiterate

Edited May 8, 2022 by MrPink

[Orestes]

3 minutes ago, MrPink said:

 

I always sort of assumed that the future was changed just before he got zapped?

 

Is my life a lie? Am I film illiterate

Nah I misremembered. I thought you could see it in Kittys eyes just before the change happens, but no, i got the order back wards. Its eye reflection then Sentinel blast then change, not Sentinel blast then eye reflection then change. Hadn't seen the movie since it was in theaters :P.

[Daxtreme]

 

Lmaoooo the ratings from my letterboxd friends are all over the place

 

(For the record I gave it a 4.5)

 

Can't wait to watch it again

[CloneWars]

I think the mixed reception comes down to Wanda. Some felt she took a shift to the dark side too fast. I felt the explanation that the dark hold corrupted her worked for me. But, I do think if there was a scene before the title card where we see the book corrupting her, that one little addition would have made a world of difference in terms of reception.

[LVB]

2 minutes ago, CloneWars said:

I think the mixed reception comes down to Wanda. Some felt she took a shift to the dark side too fast. I felt the explanation that the dark hold corrupted her worked for me. But, I do think if there was a scene before the title card where we see the book corrupting her, that one little addition would have made a world of difference in terms of reception.

 

Wanda: Enslaves an entire town.

Wanda: Realizes she is creating a hex by trapping people.
Wanda: Doesn't care when Monica tells her about it.

Wanda: Comes out of the hex to confront S.W.O.R.D and warns them not to bother her.

Wanda: Refuses to take down the hex when the people tell her that they're suffering.

 

Agatha: Wanda, the Darkhold is the book of the damned and it's your destiny to destroy the world.

 

Wanda: Agrees to let the town go only when Vision confronts her.

Wanda: Realizes that Vision and the twins will go with the hex so she closes it again.

Wanda: Decides to destroy the hex because she's cornered.

Wanda: Runs away from consequences.

Wanda: Pursues dark magic through the Darkhold to get her fake family back.

 

People: Healing from grief and pain is linear! Wanda learned her lesson! She was ready to be a good person!

[CloneWars]

1 hour ago, LVB said:

 

Wanda: Enslaves an entire town.

Wanda: Realizes she is creating a hex by trapping people.
Wanda: Doesn't care when Monica tells her about it.

Wanda: Comes out of the hex to confront S.W.O.R.D and warns them not to bother her.

Wanda: Refuses to take down the hex when the people tell her that they're suffering.

 

Agatha: Wanda, the Darkhold is the book of the damned and it's your destiny to destroy the world.

 

Wanda: Agrees to let the town go only when Vision confronts her.

Wanda: Realizes that Vision and the twins will go with the hex so she closes it again.

Wanda: Decides to destroy the hex because she's cornered.

Wanda: Runs away from consequences.

Wanda: Pursues dark magic through the Darkhold to get her fake family back.

 

People: Healing from grief and pain is linear! Wanda learned her lesson! She was ready to be a good person!

Hey, I already said it worked for me, but if a lot of people are complaining about Wanda's turn to evil, then maybe that one scene would have made a big difference.

Edited May 8, 2022 by CloneWars

[aabattery]

4 hours ago, MrPink said:

 

I always sort of assumed that the future was changed just before he got zapped?

 

Is my life a lie? Am I film illiterate

 

don't know the answers to your first question but yes to the last two

[nguyenkhoi282]

It's kinda random but since I've just rewatched all HP movies before FB3, the force field scene at Kamar Taj reminded me of the force field in the Battle of Hogwarts and welp, that didn't help. Wong's "fortify your minds" cringed me to my bones. Instead of feeling epic, that scene looked like a joke. Then all of sudden it went from this weird childish tone to super graphic corpse fest. The thing doesn't know what it wants to be.

[Wormow]

Wanda is used as a tool just to create cheap shocks to the audience. Plenty of our heroes and avengers had have a dark side, you'd never see Doctor Strange, T'Challa, Tony Stark or Steve Rogers go on a murder rampage, darkhold or not.

 

Not to mention it makes no sense on why she'd go on a murder spree to get to her kids when in the previous project, she is the one who chose to sacrifice her kids. She had agency there and made that decision herself, they weren't killed by someone else.

[TomCruiseTop]

8 minutes ago, Wormow said:

Wanda is used as a tool just to create cheap shocks to the audience. Plenty of our heroes and avengers had have a dark side, you'd never see Doctor Strange, T'Challa, Tony Stark or Steve Rogers go on a murder rampage, darkhold or not.

 

Not to mention it makes no sense on why she'd go on a murder spree to get to her kids when in the previous project, she is the one who chose to sacrifice her kids. She had agency there and made that decision herself, they weren't killed by someone else.

It's why the MCU needs more female writers IMO, for too long the female characters have been used as mere tools around and about the male characters.

[Wormow]

4 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

It's why the MCU needs more female writers IMO, for too long the female characters have been used as mere tools around and about the male characters.

 

Exactly. That's why I am hoping for a solo project, because she's being used in service of Doctor Strange's story to become this formidable foe for the story instead of being in service for her own character.

 

Although plenty of stories with an ensemble can manage all the characters well, like Civil War, or the Avengers movie. And Strange barely even has much of an arc in this movie, so was it really worth it?

[TomCruiseTop]

Just now, Wormow said:

 

Exactly. That's why I am hoping for a solo project, because she's being used in service of Doctor Strange's story to become this formidable foe for the story instead of being in service for her own character.

 

Although plenty of stories with an ensemble can manage all the characters well, like Civil War, or the Avengers movie. And Strange barely even has much of an arc in this movie, so was it really worth it?

Totally agree. A solo Wanda movie with a female writer. Now we're cooking.

[ddddeeee]

Our Christine and multiverse Christine both tell Strange 'he has to be the one with the knife'. He's also asked several times if he's happy, and seemingly hasn't accepted that success hasn't given him happiness. At the end of the movie, he actively chooses put his trust in America Chavez and not himself. No glory in that, and it's not even remotely subtle in how it's presented, either.

 

Strange has also spent like six movies keeping everyone at arm's length. He sees through his own universe and through the multiverse (both in terms of his literal other selves and how other people in other universes respond to him) how self-destructive this becomes. Because of this, he admits to himself that he's afraid of getting close to people and tells/shows multiverse Christine, Wong and Chavez how much he cares for them.

 

No, it's not as obviously telegraphed the standard 'douche becomes good' narrative these movies always have, but it's far from subtle at the same time. There's a very clear and really quite lovely story for Strange here. There are dozens of legitimate complaints about this movie, but this really isn't one of them.

[Valonqar]

3 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

It's why the MCU needs more female writers IMO, for too long the female characters have been used as mere tools around and about the male characters.

Well, female writer wrote Captain Marvel and she came up with...amnesia. You can't kneecap a character worse than that. Point being, gender doesn't guarantee quality. I hear a lot about female gaze but 365 Days is written, directed and produced by women and is undistingished from male gaze. What I'm saying is that they should hire more women but just being a woman writer does not guarantee that a female character will be well written. Twilight and 50 Shades were also written by women. So not every woman is going to produce a Katniss or Scarlett O'Hara. Not every male writer will produce Sarah Conor, Ellen Ripley, Vasquez, Lindsay, Rose, Neytiri,etc either. 

 

I think MOM will play better with GA than with fans. There's enough wiz bang, they don't care whether SFX is shit or not so, for example, zombie Strange is going to be a wow for them (I hated bad CGI and felt sorry for Cumby but I'm sure GA is thrilled), Wanda is a relatable villain with a clear sympathetic motivation and everyone who thinks she's unredeemable should sit down. She didn't kill anyone that audience cares about. Multiverse variants are cop outs and also they don't carry the same weight as T&A in NWH. Nobody cares about Kamar Taj. As for Wandavision, it's a D+ show. They will never put anything important in shows. They'll swear in marekting prior to release that you must watch cause it ties in with upcoming movie X, Y,Z but that's always going to be BS. 

 

I didn't really like the movie cause relentless assault on senses (noise, SFX) grated on me and took away from characters. I agree that Wanda is MVP, Strange is in the movie but the movie isn't about him (they try with keeping dull Christine, real and multi, around but that tells you all you need to know), Chavez is OK but we've seen that character 1000 times over - feisty girl learns to believe in herself and control her powers - cameos  are basically "Spin-off incoming!" ads like Mandalorian Season 2. I honestly think that Wanda at the center made this better than it could have been with Strange. He isn't very likable and IMO works in small doses (Avengers movies, NWH, Ragnarok) but is insufferable in the first DS movie. So making it about Wanda was the right call. I just waished there wasn't so much other crap. Just kill anything with Christine with fire. Seriously. Would have been more streamlined without her. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Daxtreme]

Raimi can't resist having a superhero story center around a main romance. 

 

That's just the way it is. And if it isn't there (Doctor Strange totally forgot about Christine his last 3 live action appearances), then he'll conjure it so he can have it.

 

People wondering whether Sam Raimi was constrained by executives to follow the MCU formula/continuity need to note that

 

1. Continuity with WandaVision is iffy.

2. Even continuity with the first Doctor Strange is iffy. So many dropped plot threads or glossed over, like Mordo.

3. Christine was essentially and completely forgotten the last 6 years of live action MCU and suddenly she's important to him again?

4. Vision was completely and totally forgotten even though Wanda created a massive Hex and enslaved a town just for him.

5. Nobody cares about what happened in Spider-Man: No Way Home in this movie.

6. The movie doesn't fit the usual MCU tone/aesthetics/style.

7. Wanda's descent to madness was great and absolutely the best part of the movie. It's also a bit too intense and I feel a lot of people have Dany season 8 flashbacks here. I think the studio would have preferred something less drastic but I suspect after Spider-Man 3 the conditions for Raimi returning was full creative control so they let it be (as they know the Darkhold can excuse pretty much anything she did here, it was stated explicitly 3 times in the movie that the Darkhold corrupts anyone who uses it)

 

So what I'm saying is that Sam Raimi wasn't constrained by executives. He did whatever he wanted, it shows, and that's what he came up with. For better or for worse.

 

And I say that as someone who loved the movie btw

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Daxtreme