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Eric Belcher

SHANG-CHI WEEKEND THREAD | NO SPOILERS | 75.38M 3-Day, 94.67M 4-Day. Record for Labor Day! | Tony Leung saved the theater! | Get Vaccinated and Wear a mask.

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6 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

I think F9 did pretty close to what it would have done domestically, but what it has done overseas considering the situation earlier in the summer with overseas releases is nothing short of astonishing. A legit $1 billion overseas grossers in normal times. The biggest international franchise on the planet except maybbbbbe the MCU. That's family, baby.

MCU is much bigger. Yeah Fast films will beat some of the solo films but they won't be coming close to Avengers movies now that the franchise has come back to earth in China. Solid #2 for now, let's see how JW Dominion does to be sure of it though. 

 

Also I would say 1 billion overseas would be incredibly unlikely even in normalcy considering it dropped big time in China and F8 did just above 1b. USA gross, though higher than many of us expected, was still well down from F8 -- and it opened at the best point for Covid cases. 

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Fast/Furious franchise is absolutely the biggest OS. F7 and Fate made over 1B OS each and that's something Marvel got only from IW and Endgame. Their solo entries never came close (IM3 is the highest with barely over 800M OS) and even TA and AoU fell short. AoU fell short in the same year when F7 crossed the mark. 

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4 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Fast/Furious franchise is absolutely the biggest OS. F7 and Fate made over 1B OS each and that's something Marvel got only from IW and Endgame. Their solo entries never came close (IM3 is the highest with barely over 800M OS) and even TA and AoU fell short. AoU fell short in the same year when F7 crossed the mark. 

You're comparing the biggest Furious entry to the 3rd-biggest MCU entry. Obviously it will look worse. F7 should be compared to Endgame and F8 to IW since those are the 2 biggest of the respective franchises. We had a "solo entry" of the Fast franchise in H&S, that did 585M international. Obviously a very good gross but several MCU solos have beaten that. 

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2 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

that is absolutely crazy! $821M from China alone (just checked Mojo) is almost Endgame domestic number. Fascinating market.

Very true indeed. Also, “Hi, Mom” is as of 2021, the highest grossing comedy film (purely a comedy without being clashed with other genres) of all time in worldwide grosses. Which makes it the first comedy film to hit massive blockbuster numbers. Chinese movies are so unpredictable with their box office grosses and appeal.

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I was kind of down on Venom 2 even a couple weeks back, if only because the first film's marketing broke the Internet and was all over my feeds. Venom 2 still isn't anywhere on that level, but I do think buzz is starting to pick up and this is promising the schlocky fun that a good chunk of people enjoyed (I don't think WOM for the first was Suicide Squad bad tbh). They're also playing into the Venom vs. Carnage hook well as a big selling point. Guess I'll see what happens on Wednesday when tickets drop.

 

Still down on Halloween Kills though and still predicting like 35M on its opening. The first movie's only selling point was nostalgia, which won't be a factor here, and I don't really see any big hook for this new one in the trailer. Could be wrong of course

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4 minutes ago, Menor said:

You're comparing the biggest Furious entry to the 3rd-biggest MCU entry. Obviously it will look worse. F7 should be compared to Endgame and F8 to IW since those are the 2 biggest of the respective franchises. We had a "solo entry" of the Fast franchise in H&S, that did 585M international. Obviously a very good gross but several MCU solos have beaten that. 

 

Though F&F isn't built on solos so I wouldn't expect a solo to perform like MCU biggest solos out of the gate. My point is that F7 and Fate didn't have the special team up or special "this is the end of the era folks" to boost their numbers. One could say Paul Walker's untimely death but that doesn't explain Fate's retention. 

 

I'll rephrase it. MCU is unquestionably the biggest franchise in the world since they produce several movies per year and they all do various types of well (from Ant Man well to Endgame well). However, as far as installments without extra booster (which team up movies are and multiverse movies aim to be) go, F7 and Fate proved bigger than Marvel solos OS thanks to overperformance in some markets.

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9 minutes ago, MrFanaticGuy34 said:

Very true indeed. Also, “Hi, Mom” is as of 2021, the highest grossing comedy film (purely a comedy without being clashed with other genres) of all time in worldwide grosses. Which makes it the first comedy film to hit massive blockbuster numbers. Chinese movies are so unpredictable with their box office grosses and appeal.

 

That is incredible! In America, those numbers are impossible without spectacle. 

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3 hours ago, Borobudur said:

The entire industry almost deceived by TSS flop....failed to recognize HBO max really impact the box office

Every time I see you post, you’re talking about The Suicide Squad. 
 

1 hour ago, TwoMisfits said:

Plus, Venom is horror...and horror is October...

 

 

No.

1 hour ago, TwoMisfits said:

 

It's as much horror as Scream:).  It's a horror comedy - I mean, the main character is a monster who eats people and can be good/bad as the mood strikes him...

It’s not designed to scare though. So it’s definitely not horror. 

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9 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

Though F&F isn't built on solos so I wouldn't expect a solo to perform like MCU biggest solos out of the gate. My point is that F7 and Fate didn't have the special team up or special "this is the end of the era folks" to boost their numbers. One could say Paul Walker's untimely death but that doesn't explain Fate's retention. 

 

I'll rephrase it. MCU is unquestionably the biggest franchise in the world since they produce several movies per year and they all do various types of well (from Ant Man well to Endgame well). However, as far as installments without extra booster (which team up movies are and multiverse movies aim to be) go, F7 and Fate proved bigger than Marvel solos OS thanks to overperformance in some markets.

Paul Walker's death absolutely brought a lot of attention to the Fast franchise. F7 had a massive surge from 6. F8 retained some of that hype but the franchise has gone into decline (F9, in markets where things were mostly normal at the time like USA and China, did very similar to the spinoff H&S). I think F10/11 (don't know exactly what the plan is) will get an ending bump but I don't think it will be enough to return to the highs of F7. Especially since F9 had pretty meh WOM in many markets. 

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21 minutes ago, Amorphous said:

More curious about how HALLOWEEN KILLS will do compared to Venom. Was absolutely wild to see how the previous entry was on Venom's OW heels back in '18. It's obviously going to drop, but horror has been doing pretty well in the pandemic. And from all accounts, the film is seems to be a huge crowd pleasure so WOM should be really strong for it. Trailer views are not that great, but I'm not sure if Universal has really kicked off the marketing just yet. Should start this week, I assume. 

Curtis will win an carreer awards at Venice this week alongside with the premiere of the movie there with reviews right after the screening.

 

Perfect timing to release final trailer and start aggressive marketing.

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6 minutes ago, Krissykins said:

Every time I see you post, you’re talking about The Suicide Squad. 
 

No.

It’s not designed to scare though. So it’s definitely not horror. 

Horror doesn't have to "scare" - it can also gross out...ala body horror...

 

Venom falls in the latter...and Carnage, I'm sure, will help further with that...

 

See how Venom 1 decided last minute to lean more into comedy and less into full on body horror, but it was still there...

 

https://screenrant.com/sony-venom-low-budget-body-horror-r-rated-originally-why/#:~:text=While Sony got its Venom,Brock since Spider-Man 3.

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6 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

Horror doesn't have to "scare" - it can also gross out...ala body horror...

 

Venom falls in the latter...and Carnage, I'm sure, will help further with that...

 

See how Venom 1 decided last minute to lean more into comedy and less into full on body horror, but it was still there...

 

https://screenrant.com/sony-venom-low-budget-body-horror-r-rated-originally-why/#:~:text=While Sony got its Venom,Brock since Spider-Man 3.

I disagree. It may have some horror elements, but it’s not a horror film. 

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9 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

 

That is incredible! In America, those numbers are impossible without spectacle. 

True. The blockbuster movies that usually are among the top 100 highest grossing films WW, are usually CGI-driven spectacle movies, animated movies, superhero movies, fantasy & adventure movies, sci-fi movies, epic movies, disaster movies, action movies, creature feature-movies and many more. But never or rarely pure comedies. So that makes Hi, Mom the only (pure) comedy so far among those top grossers. 🤷🏻‍♀️😲

 

What was the former top grossing comedy film WW, before “Hi, Mom”s box office records?

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Having written academically about horror a lot I have found engaging in epistolary discussion about what is and isn't horror to be a deeply futile task.

 

But for what it's worth I wouldn't come close to defining Venom as horror. It *could be done* as horror. But it wasn't in either of Venom's first two major movie appearances, or any screen interaction I've seen.

 

The inherent "Body horror" in Venom is no different from Fantastic 4, Hulk or Spider-Man. 

 

If you go with just "He eats them and is a monster" elements, that would mean, say Yoshi makes Super Mario horror. 

 

None of the real affective triggers: disgust, fear, shock etc are triggered consistently as a part of the rationale of the film. The Jurassic films or Kong: Skull Island are closer to Horror films than Venom by pretty much all measurable and you'd still largely be pressed to call them horror.

 

On the other hand Halloween is certainly a Horror. For some reason I think this will underperform a little. I think the first return was a bit more of a novelty than folks think but I'm very willing to be wrong.

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3 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

The inherent "Body horror" in Venom is no different from Fantastic 4, Hulk or Spider-Man. 

 

If you go with just "He eats them and is a monster" elements, that would mean, say Yoshi makes Super Mario horror. 

 

None of the real affective triggers: disgust, fear, shock etc are triggered consistently as a part of the rationale of the film. The Jurassic films or Kong: Skull Island are closer to Horror films than Venom by pretty much all measurable and you'd still largely be pressed to call them horror.


100% agree. The body horror is played for laughs and used for fighting, not to scare or gross out/gore.

 

Interesting side note is that the Jurassic Park films actually follow the slasher movie formula. 

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7 minutes ago, MrFanaticGuy34 said:

True. The blockbuster movies that usually are among the top 100 highest grossing films WW, are usually CGI-driven spectacle movies, animated movies, superhero movies, fantasy & adventure movies, sci-fi movies, epic movies, disaster movies, action movies, creature feature-movies and many more. But never or rarely pure comedies. So that makes Hi, Mom the only (pure) comedy so far among those top grossers. 🤷🏻‍♀️😲

 

What was the former top grossing comedy film WW, before “Hi, Mom”s box office records?

 

I can't find All Time by Genre on BOM! They have some weird page with genre breakdown to 50 subgenres and none of them just comedy (they have horror comedy, slacker, etc subgenres). 

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15 minutes ago, Menor said:

Paul Walker's death absolutely brought a lot of attention to the Fast franchise. F7 had a massive surge from 6. F8 retained some of that hype but the franchise has gone into decline (F9, in markets where things were mostly normal at the time like USA and China, did very similar to the spinoff H&S). I think F10/11 (don't know exactly what the plan is) will get an ending bump but I don't think it will be enough to return to the highs of F7. Especially since F9 had pretty meh WOM in many markets. 

If Fast 10 or 11 is treated and marketed as a true finale of the F&F-franchise (and a really satisfying one), then maybe it could do between F6 numbers. $230-$250M DOM (if it’s theater exclusive only) for the finale might be the most conservative numbers. Universal just needs to make the final movie, a “good & worth it” finale, without any anticlimactic moments that might ruin the WOM & quality.

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