Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny | June 30 2023 | Very mixed reviews out of Cannes

[JustLurking]

Clip seems fine to me.

[George Parr]

59 minutes ago, Firepower said:

Maybe it'll work somehow, but I just think it's usually in poor taste when you do that in the fifth+ film and know characters very well at this point. For example, in Aliens Ripley having a daughter makes perfect sense because it was just second film and we didn't know much, if anything, about her, so character who works as a "space trucker" and on a long trip away from home very likely has family which is waiting for her on Earth, so it doesn't contradict anything and adds to the character. Here I just think it's too late to introduce new best friends "who were always there, just never shown" and goddaughters who didn't even come to Indy's wedding, but "were always there", I guess...

That's the thing though, we only see Indy for a handful of days with each movie.. Then there is a gap of about 20 years, followed by another gap of 10-15 years. That's plenty yof time to "not see" characters.

 

Sure, one can point to the wedding. But notice who else wasn't there? Willie, Short Round, Sallah, etc. There can be plenty of reasons why someone wasn't seen there, all you need is a logical sound one and you are golden. In this case, Tobey Jones' character might already have been dead, while Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character might have been too young to travel abroad, busy elsewhere, or simply estranged. She is just a goddaughter after all, that is hardly a particularly close connection. All of that can be explained in the movie. If such an explanation is missing in the movie, then you can wonder whether there is a whole in the story.

 

I don't find characters not appearing before all that much of an issue. It kind of reminds me of the "we didn't see character X in the original trilogy, therefore he couldnt survive Rogue One" argument in Star Wars. It's a logical fallacy. In a galactic civil war, one person being part of one mission, yet not being seen in another, means nothing at all. A galaxy is a huge place, not constantly running into the same characters is a given. Absence isn't proof that the character doesn't exist (anymore), it is merely proof that the character plays no role in this particular storyline.

 

While setting something up earlier on is preferable, not doing so works just fine as well, provided you can offer a decent explanation as to why a character wasn't seen before.

[jedijake]

I think this movie is going to suffer. We can't compare it to TGM. TGM had the older person appeal, but also had plenty of young person appeal. Indy is a legend, but it has pretty much ZERO young person appeal and didn't even attempt to cast anyone that teens and 20-somethings could relate to.

[SpiderByte]

14 hours ago, Firepower said:

but when you create new close friends and relatives, that were never ever shown or mentioned before,

This has happened in literally every single Indiana Jones film 

[Firepower]

2 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

This has happened in literally every single Indiana Jones film 

It mostly happened in first 2 films, I used Aliens as an example for a reason. Trailer implies that Toby Jones wasn't some random pal he's seen a couple of times in his life and that's where my issue lies, since we are in the fifth film already with very old Indy and he's supposedly knows him since the original trilogy timeline, he didn't meet him between 3 and 4 where there's a huge gap, so many things could've happened. I just hope it won't be F&F type of bullshit where they add Vin's brother in the 9th(!!) film who was never ever mentioned because he obviously didn't exist.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Firepower

[Firepower]

3 hours ago, George Parr said:

That's the thing though, we only see Indy for a handful of days with each movie.. Then there is a gap of about 20 years, followed by another gap of 10-15 years. That's plenty yof time to "not see" characters.

 

Sure, one can point to the wedding. But notice who else wasn't there? Willie, Short Round, Sallah, etc. There can be plenty of reasons why someone wasn't seen there, all you need is a logical sound one and you are golden. In this case, Tobey Jones' character might already have been dead, while Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character might have been too young to travel abroad, busy elsewhere, or simply estranged. She is just a goddaughter after all, that is hardly a particularly close connection. All of that can be explained in the movie. If such an explanation is missing in the movie, then you can wonder whether there is a whole in the story.

 

I don't find characters not appearing before all that much of an issue. It kind of reminds me of the "we didn't see character X in the original trilogy, therefore he couldnt survive Rogue One" argument in Star Wars. It's a logical fallacy. In a galactic civil war, one person being part of one mission, yet not being seen in another, means nothing at all. A galaxy is a huge place, not constantly running into the same characters is a given. Absence isn't proof that the character doesn't exist (anymore), it is merely proof that the character plays no role in this particular storyline.

 

While setting something up earlier on is preferable, not doing so works just fine as well, provided you can offer a decent explanation as to why a character wasn't seen before.

Hopefully it's gonna work, I just hope it won't look like F&F, Avatar 2 or Pirates 5.

[poweranimals]

So critics see this tomorrow at Cannes apparently. I'm really curious to see how reviews will be.

[Maggie]

19 minutes ago, poweranimals said:

So critics see this tomorrow at Cannes apparently. I'm really curious to see how reviews will be.

Will reviews be released or is it embargoed?

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

31 minutes ago, Maggie said:

Will reviews be released or is it embargoed?

No embargo at Cannes.

[Merkel]

3 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

This has happened in literally every single Indiana Jones film 

 

Indeed. In Temple of Doom, which is set in Raiders, there's no mention of Salah nor Marcus. In Raiders, there's no mention of Short Round or Willy. Neither of them mention Indy's father. In Last Crusade, there's no mention of Marion

[SpiderByte]

1 hour ago, Firepower said:

It mostly happened in first 2 films, I used Aliens as an example for a reason. Trailer implies that Toby Jones wasn't some random pal he's seen a couple of times in his life and that's where my issue lies, since we are in the fifth film already with very old Indy and he's supposedly knows him since the original trilogy timeline, he didn't meet him between 3 and 4 where there's a huge gap, so many things could've happened. I just hope it won't be F&F type of bullshit where they add Vin's brother in the 9th(!!) film who was never ever mentioned because he obviously didn't exist.

I don't think it's that implausible that Indy knows one additional person from the time during World War 2

[CaptNathanBrittles]

I'm beginning to think this might get SOLO numbers domestically.

 

Internationally it will be much bigger than SOLO though.

[keysersoze123]

8 minutes ago, CaptNathanBrittles said:

I'm beginning to think this might get SOLO numbers domestically.

 

Internationally it will be much bigger than SOLO though.

I am also thinking around the same. Abysmal trailer views also point to low interest in core demo. People compare this to Maverick but that played well across all audience. We will know for sure next week once presales start. I will comp with Maverick for sure. 

[Seth Irskens]

What will it screen tomorrow est time at cannes and since it's 2hr 34 min movie what time would screening and reviews will drop?

[The Dark Alfred]

It's an awful comp IMHO. It won't get anyone close to TGM pre-sales, nor should it be compared to that film. The big difference is that INDY has to deal with the awful WoM of CRYSTYAL SKULL. Granted, that was a while ago as well, but still, it's not helping its case. It has to get out of world reaction to drive up the bookings. I don't see how it could break out domestically, heavy competition follows in July.

 

The best it can hope for is decent WoM and strong OS numbers to compensate the domestic tally.

[keysersoze123]

2 minutes ago, The Dark Alfred said:

It's an awful comp IMHO. It won't get anyone close to TGM pre-sales, nor should it be compared to that film. The big difference is that INDY has to deal with the awful WoM of CRYSTYAL SKULL. Granted, that was a while ago as well, but still, it's not helping its case. It has to get out of world reaction to drive up the bookings. I don't see how it could break out domestically, heavy competition follows in July.

 

The best it can hope for is decent WoM and strong OS numbers to compensate the domestic tally.

if the expectations is that this will have a big OW and is targeting similar audience to Maverick, its definitely not awful. I will also comp with JWD which starts slow and breaks out late. Obviously SH movies are not a good comp and I dont like comparing big movies to small ones. 

[Firepower]

30 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

I am also thinking around the same. Abysmal trailer views also point to low interest in core demo. People compare this to Maverick but that played well across all audience. We will know for sure next week once presales start. I will comp with Maverick for sure. 

Yeah, trailer views/likes are suspiciously low, it needs Maverick reviews and WOM to have any chance at decent result.

[Hatebox]

It could still be a good movie but crystal skull killed the novelty factor so I’m not surprised at low trailer views. Most people probably groaned when they heard it was in development at all. (I did too but got slightly more interested when when they announced its director.)

[ChipDerby]

I'm still excited for this because I'm a big fan of Crystal Skull

[Saul Goodman]

Still think it will be domestic heavy. People just don't buy tickets early like they used to before 2020 as seen with GoTG Vol.3 recently. Not saying it's the comp, but if WoM is good like with GoTG, it has the entire summer to hold on to.