Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania | February 17, 2023 | Competing with Eternals on RT, Competing with BvS on box office legs

[SpiderByte]

I think people are used to being in this superhero movie golden age they forgot the tolerance a lot of us have from the 00-10s. Where superhero movies being consistently good was quite rare. Last Stand, X Men Origins, Jonah Hex, Catwoman, Blade Trinity, The Spirit, LEX. I've seen the true bottom of the barrel and fortunately that kind of bad is phenomenally rare nowadays (save the occasional like Morbius and the Hellboy remake). But there were times where the "bottom" was not "lots of exposition" and was "Wesley Snipes is clearly using a body double in every single shot where his face is not in the actual frame". Even the legitimately bad of today isn't nearly as bad as what came before.

Edited February 16, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Porthos]

So I made the following post in the Eternals thread back in Oct '21 a couple of days into the RT watch of said film and... I think it's holding up fairly well:

 

On 10/27/2021 at 10:53 AM, Porthos said:

Anyway, I want to echo what a couple of other folks have said and add some of my own thoughts.

 

Making movies is HARD y'all.  If it's a minor miracle that any film comes out good given the myriad moving parts involved then what the MCU has done the last few years (or decade plus if one allows a straight run from IM1) is FUCKING UNPRECEDENTED.  We're talking god level of miracles here.

 

Sooner or later a film would come along that just didn't work for a large enough group of folks.  We're still in the initial stages of rollout, so who knows what the consensus will be (if there is ever is such a thing as a consensus) among the GA.  But sometimes things just don't come together in the editing room or on the shoot despite the best of plans. 

 

Not that I would have first hand experience with such disappointments.  Oh no.  *cough*

 

Now the good news is, is that this film doesn't seem to be eliciting harsh negative emotions to it, which can lead to... problems down the line.  Again, not that I would have any experience with that sort of thing in any of the properties I follow.  *starts coughing enough to cough up a lung*

 

If there is a slight cause for concern, it's not so much reception to this movie as the worst I think will happen is dealing with all of the anti-MCU folks out there who have been waiting years to pounce.  They are gonna be ultra annoying, but at worst they're still ignorable (as always, one can just say "Scoreboard" and go about your day).

 

No, the place for concern might be in worrying if Feige and co are starting to spread themselves a bit too thin in their massive ramp-up of content.  The 'rona makes this a bit difficult to really judge, given all of the calendar shuffling, but I would note that just this year in the Disney MCU we've had:

 

Wandavision, 

Falcon and the Winter Soldier

Black Widow

Loki

Shang-Chi and the Ten Rings

Eternals

Hawkeye

 

With a ton more in production right now, plus whatever attention was given to Sony's No Way Home and probably to a much more minor degree Sony's Let There Be Carnage.

 

That's a lot projects to keep an eye on and make sure there is a consistent level of quality.  Now this really is too soon to say.  Like to an absurd degree.  But if I were to be concerned, it's not about audience reception to Eternals or the fallout from this movie, as I would about overall quality control.

 

Then again, a simple law of averages says that even if one had the absolute best level of quality control, if one pumps out enough projects, one or two aren't gonna click.  Again, because... Making Movies is HARD.  Even if Kevin Feige made people forget that the last few years.

 

In particular the point about Feige and co spreading themselves too thin.

 

I'd now add a couple of things to it

 

1] I didn't appreciate fully how projects coming down the pike immediately post-'rona would be impacted by the increased level of difficulty in production.  Not gonna rehash my various posts I've made on the subject over the last year-plus, except to note that just because things are presumably more smooth now when it comes to shoots (and that's a big 'presumably'), that doesn't mean they were when this film was shooting or when it was in pre-production.  Any added level of difficulty can cause a cascading level of dominoes to fall when it comes to the quality of a movie.

 

2] It takes a loooooong time to turn a studio ship around. Even if Marvel started to retool yesterday/last month, things which are in various levels of pre-production already may or may not have enough time to see the changes some want/hope to see. 

 

I've seen Lucasfilm get brought up a fair few times in this thread (ironically from both "camps").  Well just to point out how long things cook in the oven, Andor was in some form of development since at least 2018. Obi-Wan Kenobi was in some form of development since at least 2017, if not earlier.  I mention these not because they had long and difficult development, but to point out that things get worked on long before they go before the camera and are in various stages of development where there might not be enough time to "throw a reset switch"/retool the project.  Some projects may just be too far down the tracks to meaningfully alter it before it goes before a camera.

 

(I also mentioned both of those shows because both WERE massively retooled in pre-production and while I enjoyed both I think it is safe to say one was much better received than the other overall)

 

====

 

So even if Marvel decides to take more time to "work on" scripts and other facets of moviemaking, the returns might not be apparent for a while.  This is the "moving train" analogy that @Favorite Fearless Legion was talking about.  A lot of the train is already down the tracks and it might only the fourth or fifth or six train that comes down that might really see whatever is being looked at/worked on now.   For instance, it's probably too late to "meaningfully" change either Captain America: New World Order or Thunderbolts which are both starting filming soon.  Polish?  Sure, though more for Thunderbolts than CA:NWO.   Radically alter if needed?  Probably not, even for Thunderbolts. It's only when we get to things like Blade which are maybe far enough away from the cameras to really see an effect of whatever changes may be happening here.

 

Of course, it is also very possible that Fiege and co have already thrown the "retool"/"give more attention to projects" switch and did it months ago.  Many folks have noted how Secret Invasion did not come out as early as some expected.  Others have noted that some of the TV series that were thought to be coming out this year are instead maybe coming out next year.  And of course the relatively long gap between The Marvels and CA:NWO.  But because production takes time, even if Marvel reached a "Yeah, we gotta make a change here" decision months ago, it wouldn't be apparent to us plebes until much later.

 

(and, of course, once again for those in the back MAKING MOVIES IS ***HARD***)

Edited February 16, 2023 by Porthos

[THUNDER BIRD]

8 hours ago, eddyxx said:

Antman wasn’t in a Avenger movie til Endgame. GOTG weren’t in age of Ultron. Every character in marvel comics does not appear in all of the big team ups. That makes the universe smaller. 

Lol, Ant Man was in Civil War, which is less than an year from his first appearance.

[interiorgatordecorator]

It might not be what sunk the movie, but the decision to get a 33 year old screen-writer to write a movie in which the bond between a father and his teenage (?) daughter plays an important role seems like a mistake

[MovieMan89]

44 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

I think people are used to being in this superhero movie golden age they forgot the tolerance a lot of us have from the 00-10s. Where superhero movies being consistently good was quite rare. Last Stand, X Men Origins, Jonah Hex, Catwoman, Blade Trinity, The Spirit, LEX. I've seen the true bottom of the barrel and fortunately that kind of bad is phenomenally rare nowadays (save the occasional like Morbius and the Hellboy remake). But there were times where the "bottom" was not "lots of exposition" and was "Wesley Snipes is clearly using a body double in every single shot where his face is not in the actual frame". Even the legitimately bad of today isn't nearly as bad as what came before.

I almost think being outright “bad” might be better for MCU at this point than another movie that just kinda seems there. At least it would be memorable. They are falling into a rut of very granola films and that’s probably the biggest thing that’s going to make people stop talking about them and stop being the golden goose of Hollywood franchises. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by MovieMan89

[thajdikt]

Going of Letterboxd, IMDB, metrics in Korea and France idk could be a straight B Cinemascore this one. Curious to see RT audience score and PT tomorrow and Friday.

 

Of course domestic reaction could be more different but after watching it myself I don´t think so

Edited February 16, 2023 by thajdikt

[grey ghost]

Why is this being treated like a flop when it could be the most successful Ant-Man film?

[John Marston]

1 minute ago, grey ghost said:

Why is this being treated like a flop when it could be the most successful Ant-Man film?

 

 

actually strong chance it could finish under 2 worldwide. Also even if it ekes out a final gross a bit over Ant Man 2 that's not impressive since it has the biggest budget and following Ant Man appearing in Endgame

[tonytr87]

17 minutes ago, John Marston said:

 

 

actually strong chance it could finish under 2 worldwide. Also even if it ekes out a final gross a bit over Ant Man 2 that's not impressive since it has the biggest budget and following Ant Man appearing in Endgame

 

Under 2? Whether you mean 200 million or 2 billion, that's idiotic. 

[JustLurking]

23 minutes ago, thajdikt said:

Going of Letterboxd, IMDB, metrics in Korea and France idk could be a straight B Cinemascore this one. Curious to see RT audience score and PT tomorrow and Friday.

 

Of course domestic reaction could be more different but after watching it myself I don´t think so

It looks more like B+ to me off korean metrics. EGG seems to have settled ard 80, naver is falling but don't think it'll go as low as eternals/thor4 at this point. Could be wrong of course (and could just be more disliked in the US than in SK, but that is quite rare imo), but doesn't seem like it is disliked enough for the flat B.

Edited February 16, 2023 by JustLurking

[thajdikt]

32 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

It looks more like B+ to me off korean metrics. EGG seems to have settled ard 80, naver is falling but don't think it'll go as low as eternals/thor4 at this point. Could be wrong of course (and could just be more disliked in the US than in SK, but that is quite rare imo), but doesn't seem like it is disliked enough for the flat B.

That´s at least encouraging. Not like B+ is anything but bad but at least then it´s in line with other MCU movies recently and not B which is just next level awful

[eddyxx]

2 hours ago, kayumanggi said:

 

This. I think Marvel's content alone has satiated the market. I am perfectly fine with just 2 movies and 1 to 2 series a year.

 

This year is very CBMs heavy. Last year, we had six movies. This year, we have eight. Nine if we include SPIDER-MAN: ACROSS THE SPIDER-VERSE.

 

The only months without a CBM opener are January, April, September, and November.

what’s coming out in august and October?

 

wait I remembered blue beetle but October?

[Legion Again]

1 hour ago, grey ghost said:

Why is this being treated like a flop when it could be the most successful Ant-Man film?

Well, for one, it’s pretty unlikely to be the most successful Ant-man film.

 

But beyond that the reception is the more important thing long term

[kayumanggi]

32 minutes ago, eddyxx said:

what’s coming out in august and October?

 

wait I remembered blue beetle but October?

 

Sony's KRAVEN THE HUNTER.

[belblazer]

I don't know if the cameo is a spoiler so I'm gonna put it in the box:

 

This comment is killing me  💀

 

Spoiler

 

I saw a clip on Twitter and it looks HORRIBLE. People will make a lot of memes like they did with this:

 

[eddyxx]

9 minutes ago, belblazer said:

I don't know if the cameo is a spoiler so I'm gonna put it in the box:

 

This comment is killing me  💀

 

  Hide contents

 

I saw a clip on Twitter and it looks HORRIBLE. People will make a lot of memes like they did with this:

 

Disney will fix it in post-post. On Disney+.

[lorddemaxus]

Saw a couple of pics of MODOK on my twitter. He looks funny and probably the best use of the uncanny valley effect I've seen in a while. Idk, feels intentional

[fmpro]

45 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

Saw a couple of pics of MODOK on my twitter. He looks funny and probably the best use of the uncanny valley effect I've seen in a while. Idk, feels intentional

M.O.D.O.K worked IMO. One of the better things in this movie. 

[Saul Goodman]

It's funny how some are acting now like he is a serious villain. MODOK always has been a meme even in the comics and from what I've seen the movie goes for that.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Saul Goodman

[THUNDER BIRD]

1 hour ago, Saul Goodman said:

It's funny how some are acting now like he is a serious villain. MODOK always has been a meme even in the comics and from what I've seen the movie goes for that.

Movies Aren't Comics.

 

The better Kevin realise this, the better.