SUICIDE SQUAD WEEKEND THREAD | New REVISED SUNDAY NUMBER 134m FROM GURU ON PG 212 | 267.1M WW OW | Nine Lives 6.5 OW |No Spoilers Allowed!!! | ACCOUNT SALES THIS WEEKEND - see first post for details !!

[GiantCALBears]

6 minutes ago, a2knet said:

 

In some worlds it stands for hack.

 

Ouch, owned.

[superweirdo87]

scott mendelson writes a lot of annoying stuff and he is not as good as predicting as many BOT posters. But, I think this Superman piece is worth reading.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/07/04/the-problem-with-superman-movies-may-be-superman/

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, Tele Loves Bay & Twilight said:

 

C'mon, man, that's an insane thing to say.

I'm serious about this. No one in Hollywood literally understands Superman and knows how to navigate who Superman is in the comics and translate that to Hollywood like he does. This dude might be the biggest Superman fan that I've ever seen, and he isn't a bad screenwriter going by his SCREENPLAYS, not some of the screenplays that became films. Reading American Alien cemented that rationalization to me. This dude was born to write Superman films. He'd probably do it amazingly and could keep doing his entire life. He gets it, and Superman isn't like Batman and Spider-Man, these two are actually EASY characters to write. Superman is tough, Superman requires a level of understanding of the character like he does and that might be unmatched right now in both comics AND films. 

[RamblinRed]

I do think reviews will have an effect with the GA - they almost always do.

I'm more of a GA movie goer, I am a middle aged male with a family - so I have a limited number of movies I will see in the cinemas each year, and probably 50% of them are going to be family films. 

Until 2 weeks ago this movie was on my list of must sees for this year for one of those slots, but the last 2 weeks have put me in a place where I have decided I will likely wait for it to come out on video.

 

The combination of the horrible last trailer at comic con (which was not good at all) and the reviews this week have largely made me decide I likely won't be going to see it.

i have 2 colleagues at work who are big movie goers who I will listen to next week. if they loved it i might change my mind- but otherwise a pass. 

 

I also pay attention to how people who have seen movies react because I can gauge how much I might like or dislike based on how others like movies. For example, Baumer says he loves this movie, i've noticed he and I have very different tastes and it is likely if he loves a movie I am not likely to love it. No offense to Baumer as I respect his opinions and his knowledge of movies, i just know we have different tastes and thats cool. There are others here who appear to have tastes more similar to mine so i look to see what they say.

 

I expect this movie to act like a sequel given how pervasive the marketing has been for over a year. Everyone knows this film is coming and everyone has seen the characters.

Given there was an article this week saying this movie was going to need to make 750-800MM WW to show any profit just goes to show how much WB has been spending for a long time on marketing this movie.

 

 

 

[Black Hawk]

[excel1]

DCCU STATE OF THE UNION

 

#MakeDCFilmsGreatAgain!

 

The biggest takeaway from all of this is the DC Properties were - and largely still are - on a completely different level than pretty much any Marvel property sans IRON MAN, and that will change as soon as RDJ leaves. Higher floors, higher ceilings, not even comparable. Where Marvel has essentially reached the potential for nearly all of its properties, DC has had several underperformers in a row. While SS in no way is an underperformer as a concept, it is clear the film will underperform what became its very real potential due to the terrible reviews (even though WOM will be fine).

At what point does WB worry about damaging/destroying what were previously extremely popular brands just for the sake of matching Marvel? Christopher Nolan made Batman the most popular single character ON EARTH. Look at what Zack Snyder was able to do him in a single film. SUICIDE SQUAD clearly had the potential to be a MASSIVE break out hit & make stars out of all of its main characters. While the latter part still may be true (Deadshot, Joker, and Harley won't be turning off any fans), the former now appears to only be a quasi breakout hit ands frankly cannot help feeling like a disappoint relative its clear potential.

This is now 3 straight films that I personally thought were too important for WB to fuck up, but in reality have all been fucked up to varying degrees. It is clear that despite seemingly strong concepts, limitless budgets, the finest production values, the most incredible marketing campaigns, etc that each DCCU property SHOULD have made more money than it is.

The less than perfect quality of MAN OF STEEL, BATMAN V SUPERMAN, and SUICIDE SQUAD has no doubt cost WB at least $1 billion dollars worldwide between the three from the terrible legs they all have experienced (though SS will likely have OK legs). They are underperforming their potential SEVERELY.

 

MAN OF STEEL should have been a easy 130M OW, 350M total, 900M WW Film

BATMAN VS SUPERMAN should have been an easy $215m, 550m, $1.3b WW Film

SUICIDE SQUAD should have been an easy $175m, $400m, $1b WW Film

 

The biggest problem they have is living up to the insurmountable legacy of THE DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY.

 

MARVEL established a precedent of terrible plots, horrible villains, no existent themes, awesome action, hilarious humor, and loveable hero's. Marvel has made popcorn films from day one. They have trained both critics and their audiences to view their films through THAT looking glass. As a result, viewers are never wondering "Why didn't they do this that way??" or "where was this person?" or "a hero wouldn't do that" etc. They are trained to be dumbed down and not question anything. Their films make no attempt to utilize ones brain and as a result, most issues bounce in one ear and out the other. This approach means they will never experience the true critical success that films as Superman 1, TDK or Spider-man 2 achieved. But, they likely will not upset anybody either. Marvel makes water for all, not wine for a few.

 

DC Films simply cannot escape the comparisons to Nolan's incredible films. Even when DC tries to go the Marvel route, such as is the case with Suicide Squad, it is held to a CLEAR double standard in the eyes of critics. Critics laugh and take no issues with Starlord having a "dance off" at the end of GOTG because they know what they're watching has a film IQ of 45. They take issue with the more well thought out "Martha!!" scene because this is a film bragging that it has a film IQ of 130 when it's really 110. It's absurd, and ridiculous, and it is all Chris Nolan's fault.

 

While Marvel trained audiences to turn their brains off, Nolan stimulated moviegoers brains in ways never imagined or thought possible for comic book films. We all instinctively view DC with a greater stature than Marvel properties (as evidenced by the fact they are CLEARLY on a much higher financial starting point than any Marvel property was) and look to DC for the brain stroking Nolan's TDK films gave us. When we do not receive that feeling we came to expect from them, the feeling of disappointment is overwhelming. With Marvel, there is no sense of disappointment because the expectation was never there to begin with.

 

GIVE ME QUALITY, OR GIVE ME DEATH! MAKE DC FILMS GREAT AGAIN!

Edited August 5, 2016 by excel1

[Fancyarcher]

3 hours ago, grim22 said:

Wonder how much Nine Lives did in previews?

 

It was too massive to report.

[a2k]

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[Dementeleus]

3 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

I'm serious about this. No one in Hollywood literally understands Superman and knows how to navigate who Superman is in the comics and translate that to Hollywood like he does. 

 

All that shows is how little you know of writers in Hollywood -- understandable since most of them aren't ranting on their blogs about what they would do.  

 

Seriously, dude, there are plenty of people who could do a wonderful take on El Hombre de Acero.

[TalismanRing]

DCCU STATE OF THE UNION

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by TalismanRing

[excel1]

6 minutes ago, superweirdo87 said:

scott mendelson writes a lot of annoying stuff and he is not as good as predicting as many BOT posters. But, I think this Superman piece is worth reading.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/07/04/the-problem-with-superman-movies-may-be-superman/

 

What nonsense. Snyder is just a fucking idiot with a totally different view of Superman. He took a great take on the character story-wise and molded it to fit his vision of emo depressed Superman. What a complete disaster from a total moron.

[GiantCALBears]

2 minutes ago, a2knet said:

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Recently Browsing   3 members

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• ProtoMan

 

I take offense to being lumped with clowns like Tele...

[Claire of Themyscira]

[superweirdo87]

18 minutes ago, moviesRus said:

 

I almost wonder if this is hindering DC's movie making since they know their A-list characters will bring in big bucks no matter what. It's like having a safety net.

 

I'm pretty sure Feige said this in an interview once but Marvel would've been totally caput as a studio and probably never even made an Avengers film had their first few films been terribly received.

 

Many people have argued that starting without Spidey or the X-Men may have helped Marvel in the long run because they had to establish a lot with less familiar terrain.

[RichWS]

1 minute ago, Tele Loves Bay & Twilight said:

 

All that shows is how little you know of writers in Hollywood -- understandable since most of them aren't ranting on their blogs about what they would do.  

 

 

Hahaha exactly. Most of them aren't attention whores who constantly say online, "Here's what I would do!"

[filmlover]

3 minutes ago, superweirdo87 said:

scott mendelson writes a lot of annoying stuff and he is not as good as predicting as many BOT posters. But, I think this Superman piece is worth reading.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/07/04/the-problem-with-superman-movies-may-be-superman/

Despite its share of flaws (most notably a miscast Kate Bosworth), I still think Superman Returns is a rather strong and underappreciated film. These recent movies make me wish that we had gotten a further exploration of that iteration instead.

 

I think it goes without saying that we're never gonna see a proper sequel to Man of Steel at this point. WB only have themselves to blame for that.

[superweirdo87]

1 minute ago, excel1 said:

 

What nonsense. Snyder is just a fucking idiot with a totally different view of Superman. He took a great take on the character story-wise and molded it to fit his vision of emo depressed Superman. What a complete disaster from a total moron.

 

What about 2006? And the fact that aside from Death of Superman, his comics are outsold?

[redfirebird2008]

7 minutes ago, excel1 said:

DCCU STATE OF THE UNION

 

#MakeDCFilmsGreatAgain!

 

The biggest takeaway from all of this is the DC Properties were - and largely still are - on a completely different level than pretty much any Marvel property sans IRON MAN, and that will change as soon as RDJ leaves. Higher floors, higher ceilings, not even comparable. Where Marvel has essentially reached the potential for nearly all of its properties, DC has had several underperformers in a row. While SS in no way is an underperformer as a concept, it is clear the film will underperform what became its very real potential due to the terrible reviews (even though WOM will be fine).

At what point does WB worry about damaging/destroying what were previously extremely popular brands just for the sake of matching Marvel? Christopher Nolan made Batman the most popular single character ON EARTH. Look at what Zack Snyder was able to do him in a single film. SUICIDE SQUAD clearly had the potential to be a MASSIVE break out hit & make stars out of all of its main characters. While the latter part still may be true (Deadshot, Joker, and Harley won't be turning off any fans), the former now appears to only be a quasi breakout hit ands frankly cannot help feeling like a disappoint relative its clear potential.

This is now 3 straight films that I personally thought were too important for WB to fuck up, but in reality have all been fucked up to varying degrees. It is clear that despite seemingly strong concepts, limitless budgets, the finest production values, the most incredible marketing campaigns, etc that each DCCU property SHOULD have made more money than it is.

The less than perfect quality of MAN OF STEEL, BATMAN V SUPERMAN, and SUICIDE SQUAD has no doubt cost WB at least $1 billion dollars worldwide between the three from the terrible legs they all have experienced (though SS will likely have OK legs). They are underperforming their potential SEVERELY.

 

MAN OF STEEL should have been a easy 130M OW, 350M total, 900M WW Film

BATMAN VS SUPERMAN should have been an easy $215m, 550m, $1.3b WW Film

SUICIDE SQUAD should have been an easy $175m, $400m, $1b WW Film

 

The biggest problem they have is living up to the insurmountable legacy of THE DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY.

 

MARVEL established a precedent of terrible plots, horrible villains, no existent themes, awesome action, hilarious humor, and loveable hero's. Marvel has made popcorn films from day one. They have trained both critics and their audiences to view their films through THAT looking glass. As a result, viewers are never wondering "Why didn't they do this that way??" or "where was this person?" or "a hero wouldn't do that" etc. They are trained to be dumbed down and not question anything. Their films make no attempt to utilize ones brain and as a result, most issues bounce in one ear and out the other. This approach means they will never experience the true critical success that films as Superman 1, TDK or Spider-man 2 achieved. But, they likely will not upset anybody either. Marvel makes water for all, not wine for a few.

 

DC Films simply cannot escape the comparisons to Nolan's incredible films. Even when DC tries to go the Marvel route, such as is the case with Suicide Squad, it is held to a CLEAR double standard in the eyes of critics. Critics laugh and take no issues with Starlord having a "dance off" at the end of GOTG because they know what they're watching has a film IQ of 45. They take issue with the more well thought out "Martha!!" scene because this is a film bragging that it has a film IQ of 130 when it's really 110. It's absurd, and ridiculous, and it is all Chris Nolan's fault.

 

While Marvel trained audiences to turn their brains off, Nolan stimulated moviegoers brains in ways never imagined or thought possible for comic book films. We all instinctively view DC with a greater stature than Marvel properties (as evidenced by the fact they are CLEARLY on a much higher financial starting point than any Marvel property was) and look to DC for the brain stroking Nolan's TDK films gave us. When we do not receive that feeling we came to expect from them, the feeling of disappointment is overwhelming. With Marvel, there is no sense of disappointment because the expectation was never there to begin with.

 

GIVE ME QUALITY, OR GIVE ME DEATH! MAKE DC FILMS GREAT AGAIN!

 

 

The DCU sucks and it is all WB's fault.

 

[excel1]

4 minutes ago, TalismanRing said:

DCCU STATE OF THE UNION

 

 

SUMMON EXCEL

[a2k]

That Batman was so good in BVS shows that there is room for different and successful director-actor combos for any and every superhero, even IM and BAT.