Top 100 Sci-Fi movies. No Superhero movies are allowed. Deadline is February 29th

[Madhuvan]

9 minutes ago, Inceptionzq said:

Wait yeah that’s true. So I guess no superhero movies and yes to Star Wars movies. Thanks for pointing that out lol

So, should I change my ranking?

[Cooper Legion]

39 minutes ago, ZeeSoh said:

8+5>10  So No SH movie won the poll. I do think SH should not be included 

(but SW should) but its your call in the end. 

 

12 minutes ago, Inceptionzq said:

Wait yeah that’s true. So I guess no superhero movies and yes to Star Wars movies. Thanks for pointing that out lol

I’m pretty sure Zeesoh was joking (as the emoji indicates), because this is extremely flawed logic. The poll had 3 options, and option A got the most votes. 10>8, 10>5, plurality winner, case closed.   
 

Now, I personally wouldn't have included option C to begin with, and perhaps it would have come out 10 vs 13. Perhaps it would have been 15 vs 8. We don’t know for sure. But interpreting a 3 option poll so the option with least votes is enacted is simply ridiculous.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Arendelle Legion

[Inceptionzq]

5 minutes ago, Arendelle Legion said:

 

I’m pretty sure Zeesoh was joking (as the emoji indicates), because this is extremely flawed logic. The poll had 3 options, and option A got the most votes. 10>8, 10>5, plurality winner, case closed.   
 

Now, I personally wouldn't have included option C to begin with, and perhaps it would have come out 10 vs 13. Perhaps it would have been 15 vs 8. We don’t know for sure. But interpreting a 3 option poll so the option with least votes is enacted is simply ridiculous.

I think it was tongue-in-cheek, but it was essentially 2 polls in 1. Yes or no to Star Wars and yes or no to Superhero movies. I think that’s a fair way to look at it.

[Inceptionzq]

15 minutes ago, Madhuvan said:

So, should I change my ranking?

If you want. I can just exclude them myself though.

[Cooper Legion]

7 minutes ago, Inceptionzq said:

I think it was tongue-in-cheek, but it was essentially 2 polls in 1. Yes or no to Star Wars and yes or no to Superhero movies. I think that’s a fair way to look at it.

Perhaps it should have been run as 2 separate polls, but that’s not the options people were actually presented with, and the results are just speculation.   
 

Now ultimately it’s your list, and it’s a-ok to just override the poll results and go with whatever feels right to you. I jut ask that we please don’t pretend a result of 10-8-5 has the 5 vote option as the democratic option.

[Inceptionzq]

16 minutes ago, Arendelle Legion said:

Perhaps it should have been run as 2 separate polls, but that’s not the options people were actually presented with, and the results are just speculation.   
 

Now ultimately it’s your list, and it’s a-ok to just override the poll results and go with whatever feels right to you. I jut ask that we please don’t pretend a result of 10-8-5 has the 5 vote option as the democratic option.

Yeah two polls would’ve been better in hindsight. I guess we can call this some Executive interpretation 

[Menor the Destroyer]

1 hour ago, Arendelle Legion said:

 

I’m pretty sure Zeesoh was joking (as the emoji indicates), because this is extremely flawed logic. The poll had 3 options, and option A got the most votes. 10>8, 10>5, plurality winner, case closed.   
 

Now, I personally wouldn't have included option C to begin with, and perhaps it would have come out 10 vs 13. Perhaps it would have been 15 vs 8. We don’t know for sure. But interpreting a 3 option poll so the option with least votes is enacted is simply ridiculous.

Yeah I personally voted for no to both but my second choice would have been yes to both.

[Cooper Legion]

1 hour ago, Menor said:

Yeah I personally voted for no to both but my second choice would have been yes to both.

Lol, I voted yes both but 2nd choice no both.

[TalismanRing]

2 hours ago, Inceptionzq said:

Yeah two polls would’ve been better in hindsight. I guess we can call this some Executive interpretation 

So we're going with yes to all SW films and no to all SH films - the third option that got 5 votes.

 

AEG, AIW, GOTG, AM, BP and IM are less sci-fi than a SW film.  Uh huh.

[Jason]

On 2/10/2020 at 11:53 AM, Inceptionzq said:

Should Star Wars and Superhero movies be allowed in the Sci-Fi countdown?

 

Like for yes. Thanks for no. Disbelief for SW only.

 

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I didn't see this before voting was closed.

The poll is obviously flawed, but interpreting the results to mean "SW only" is the winner is one seriously whack interpretation, to put it generously.

No way to actually know what the most common preference is between yes/yes, yes/no, no/yes, and no/no, when one of the options wasn't even offered. Even better, the two questions should have been asked separately.

That said, I'm not running the list and I don't intend to contribute. Just commenting as a matter of principle.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Jason

[baumer]

So what am i allowed to include?  This seems so much tougher than it needs to be.  Why not just make an executive decision and say all SH movies qualify or they don't.  It is afterall @Inceptionzq thread...the final say should lie with him/her.

[Inceptionzq]

Alright alright. There’s still plenty of time so I’ll do the right thing and make it two separate polls. And I’ll edit it into the topic this time

 

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Edited February 12, 2020 by Inceptionzq

[Inceptionzq]

4 minutes ago, baumer said:

So what am i allowed to include?  This seems so much tougher than it needs to be.  Why not just make an executive decision and say all SH movies qualify or they don't.  It is afterall @Inceptionzq thread...the final say should lie with him/her.

I probably am making it harder than it needs to be but I do want the forum to make the decision.

[Cooper Legion]

If only we could get such a clean resolution in Iowa 🤣

[Kalo]

Changed my mind, put Yes to both. looked like it was heading that direction anyways.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Kalo

[The Panda]

Superhero movies and Star Wars are not sci-fi, they do not include any actual science.

[The Panda]

Allow me to provide a guideline to think through when deciding what to include:

 

I like these quotes as a jumping off point

 

“Science Fiction is something that could happen – but usually you wouldn’t want it to. Fantasy is something that couldn’t happen, though often you only wish that it could.”

– Arthur C Clarke

 

“A handy short definition of almost all science fiction might read: realistic speculation about possible future events, based solidly on adequate knowledge of the real world, past and present, and on a thorough understanding of the nature and significance of the scientific method." - Robert A. Heinlein

 

 

If something is Science Fiction or Fantasy (or neither) depends on two things, from my perspective:

 

1. What narrative tropes is it fulfilling?

 

2. If there is futuristic technology (or aliens or space travel), is there some explanation for it that is, for the most part, grounded in science and reality (or realistic speculation of something that could be possible).

 

Let’s take a few of the case points people are discussing:

 

Star Wars
 

1. Star Wars, while including futuristic technology, rarely attempts to provide rational logic for why these absurd things happen.  Things occur because of “The Force” or because they can, and while there may be some in-universe rules it abides by, it certainly does not even attempt to abide by the rules of the universe we live in.  Case in point it does not pass the bar of Heinlein’s definition, or the second point that I listed.  
 

2. Star Wars, narratively is not attempting to speculate on anything that could be.  Classic Star Wars actually follows classic fantasy tropes to the t (A Farmboy meets a wise “wizard” who sends him on a heroic journey to rescue a princess from the castle of a purely evil “black knight” type of character.  Space swords and magic in it and all).  Maybe some extended universe stuff goes closer to to the sci-fi realm but the movies clearly don’t.  It’s a fantasy story set in space (think how Steampunk is fantasy as it’s a fantasy story with the inclusion of industrial revolution style tech.  Star Wars is fantasy with futuristic tech)

 

Superheroes

 

This is a very broad one to cover, and some comic book stories could be argued as truly being sci-fi, which is a branch of speculative fiction.  I’m thinking of Watchmen in particular is maybe the closest one of the big name brand superheroes gets to being truly sci-fi

 

I’ll just pick a few to get the point that none of the ones that I think people are considering really count.

 

In general the superhero genre is its own genre and not sci-fi.  Excluding the point about technology, the classic superhero narrative tropes are very distinct from speculative fiction, they’re fantastical in nature to the point I’d rather just call them contemporary fantasy stories (kind of like Harry Potter).

 

1. There’s rarely any grounding in science.  Superman has these magical powers simply because he does, Batman and Iron Man can create ridiculous tech simply because it’s cool, etc.  Even in cases of attempts to explain how the super powers are possible they’re very superficial in layers and usually about as absurd in real world grounding as no explanation at all.  For example, Spider-Man gets super powers because he gets bit by a radioactive spider, it’s silly logic that has no basis in reality, but we give it narrative passes because the genre is not based in reality.  
 

2. Even in cases of the “realistic” superheroes, like Nolan’s Batman, it doesn’t satisfy the “speculative fiction” element that is essential for science fiction.  Batman boils down to a rich billionaire fighting crime and corruption in his city, sometimes coming up with cool tech devices to do so.  Stuff like the MCU, provides the absurdistic rationales (that work because they’re fantasy movies) and thematically aren’t actually focused on speculative fiction elements and focuses a bit more on the classic “Good vs Evil” fantasy tropes.  Even with something like Black Panther, the advanced technology is usually handwaved away by being possible because of some magical material called Vibranium.

 

I think there are cases of comic book movies being Sci-Fi.  But the only modern big brand one that I think comes close to fitting the bill is Watchmen

 

Gravity and The Martian

 

Now that I said that, I do think something like Gravity or The Martian are clearly in the realms of science fiction. 
 

1. Both of these films are fiction, not based on real events, so that’s one reason they pass the bar but Apollo 11 or First Man do not.

 

2. They’re grounded in science, even if some aspects of the film don’t exactly line up with reality, for the most part they’re grounded in the universe we live in (or a speculation of what a future iteration of our universe could look like).  Think, stuff like the MCU or Star Wars are not realistically grounded in our universe or a speculative future version of it.

 

3. They’re both speculative stories to certain extents.  Gravity, while using contemporary technology, is a speculative account about a disastrous event that could potentially occur .  It has themes that are dealing with human relation to technology (the disaster is not a natural one, it’s based on a technological failure). It would clearly fit the bill of Heinlein’s definition, and the Martian would as well.

 

I think the reason some people don’t include something like Gravity as sci-fi is because they’re including fantasy stories like the MCU or Star Wars in their definitions.

 

EDIT:

 

Caveat:  I want to add that the way I’m using the phrase “speculative fiction” here probably isn’t the most accurate as fantasy and horror stories are often included under it (but for different reasons).  I’m using the phrase as speculating about potentially ‘realistic‘ future events or technology.  Ie: What would it look like if this possible future scenario occurred (usually relating to technology grounded in science and the rules of the universe we are in).

 

Maybe not the best way to use the phrase speculative fiction but in terms of my post I think it’s adequate in explaining why certain things are and are not sci-fi.

Edited February 12, 2020 by The Panda

[cannastop]

For your consideration:

 

Akira (1988)

 

 

The Iron Giant (1999)

[cannastop]

I sent a list.

[cannastop]

Yes to Star Wars, no to Superheroes.

Although I personally didn't vote for Star Wars.